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osu! World Cup 2015 - Discussion Thread 321t3f
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While I do understand the change and agree that this will definitely be an improvement to the viewing experience, I don't like it at all. The reason scoring is very combo heavy is because the hardest aspect of the game is supposed to get rewarded the most. For example, in osu!mania combo doesn't do anything at all because you could literally just spam all your buttons and still keep combo, while not paying ANY attention to rhythm, while in standard reading might as well be the single most important skill in the game. I do understand that a "random miss" on a map you performed extremely well on can ruin the whole score, but being able to stay focused while playing is IMO the most difficult aspect of the game.Bauxe wrote: l5c1p
I don't get why people are confused about the change to the scoring system, it is probably the most requested thing relating to OWC.
Then again, I might be biased since my own playstyle and the way I read sacrifices accuracy in order to maintain stable aim and combo. And also they haven't released any specific information on how scoring will work yet, so it might not be as tremendous as I am anticipating it.
For now it's probably still okay. It sucks, so it's something that hopefully doesn't happen next year (since last owc we also had the problem of not knowing some things in advance, which resulted in everything being blown out of proportions last year too). The best would be if you could get these things finalized before the registrations end though. Those who should be able to expect the rules to be what they for, so yeah.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
it's still in heavy testing, hence why I gave you a rough tendency where it will go. I am sorry that we were unable to deliver concrete details sooner.CXu wrote: 344051
Would be nice to know that before g up to a tournament though, you know
Anyhow, good luck with testing and finalizing these things~
Thanks for the input! We will consider this option internally and figure something out, if we deem this as feasable.StarrStyx wrote: 55366
I dont know if it's appropriate to do so, but I somehow think that for one or two matches, some streamers or well known osu commentators on Twitch can be asked to commentate on a match or two.
Just to bring some freshness to the streams imo, apart from the usual ones
I absolutely agree and I tried my best to whip the devs harder, but it wasnt possible to release the complete thing just in time. I actually wanted it to be done and dandy right before we open the s, but this was out of my reach hahaCXu wrote: 344051
For now it's probably still okay. It sucks, so it's something that hopefully doesn't happen next year (since last owc we also had the problem of not knowing some things in advance, which resulted in everything being blown out of proportions last year too). The best would be if you could get these things finalized before the registrations end though. Those who should be able to expect the rules to be what they for, so yeah.
I just hope that this scoring system won't be as bad as mania's. Indeed, I honestly feel like it's the worst for tourneys, why?
Because you cant make advantages of players' consistency in of comboeing (not sure about the correct word to use there). Before, in team based tourneys there have been a lots of tight match that has been disputed throughout maps because people had combos while other had not. I honestly feel like consistency is what people want to see, they want amazing combos more than "amazing accuracy" which is not relevant on long songs.. holding combos is harder in tournament than holding accuracy IN MY OPINION.
Well, i think i am pretty confused in what i say, but if it appears to be close to mania's score system, then i highly disagree with your choices.
Because you cant make advantages of players' consistency in of comboeing (not sure about the correct word to use there). Before, in team based tourneys there have been a lots of tight match that has been disputed throughout maps because people had combos while other had not. I honestly feel like consistency is what people want to see, they want amazing combos more than "amazing accuracy" which is not relevant on long songs.. holding combos is harder in tournament than holding accuracy IN MY OPINION.
Well, i think i am pretty confused in what i say, but if it appears to be close to mania's score system, then i highly disagree with your choices.
As we stated here: https://twitter.com/ppy/status/649599477586636800Musty wrote: 683r6m
I just hope that this scoring system won't be as bad as mania's. Indeed, I honestly feel like it's the worst for tourneys, why?
Because you cant make advantages of players' consistency in of comboeing (not sure about the correct word to use there). Before, in team based tourneys there have been a lots of tight match that has been disputed throughout maps because people had combos while other had not. I honestly feel like consistency is what people want to see, they want amazing combos more than "amazing accuracy" which is not relevant on long songs.. holding combos is harder in tournament than holding accuracy IN MY OPINION.
Well, i think i am pretty confused in what i say, but if it appears to be close to mania's score system, then i highly disagree with your choices.
It won't be like mania. In mania, combo does not matter at all. We do not plan that. Rather, we just want to take away the weightening of combo >> all. Combo will have a significant impact, but it won't be exponentially outgrowing the score, so even if your accuracy is shit, you will be like miles ahead of people who just missed once. However, combo will definitely matter, we just adjust the balance between how heavy Combo impacts the score and how you can compensate singular drops by accuracy instead.
Bit of a harsh thing to say to the person who did the majority of the commentating of the last few years, is it not?Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
We didn't need you for past 3 world cups. So, no. You can resume playing steam games now.Mr Color wrote: 2r8t
Well, I take it you have enough people that you don't need me anymore then, godspeed o\
Still, looking forward to this year! Will we be getting any pro players commentating like last year? That would be good.
Wtf is this thing about Color, he was actually the best commentator with at least some knowledge about the standard players for all past tournaments.
Btw, you should consider taking in some new commentators. People like Evrien, lolimonz, Doomsday and others were really great during the All-Star tournament that took place not long time ago and could bring some great quality into this tournament as well.
Btw, you should consider taking in some new commentators. People like Evrien, lolimonz, Doomsday and others were really great during the All-Star tournament that took place not long time ago and could bring some great quality into this tournament as well.
:D:D
fartownik wrote: 3l1h
Wtf is this thing about Color, he was actually the best commentator with at least some knowledge about the standard players for all past tournaments.
Btw, you should consider taking in some new commentators. People like Evrien, lolimonz, Doomsday and others were really great during the All-Star tournament that took place not long time ago and could bring some great quality into this tournament as well.
ztrot is making the final calls here. Make them him to sort it out.
Like I said, ask ztrotAmaiHachimitsu wrote: 5k2c5k
Probably PP-oriented system.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
You should wait until we actually release how the scoring works before you make assumptions about it.
While it could be kind of "fair", it would ruin the viewing experience.
Also
Like, seriously, can I commentate too?
Winner wrote: 532i1v
I think it's a bit too late for that. Would have to wipe all scores on leaderboards or make an entirely new leaderboard.Decon082 wrote: 5v6e6n
now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
At least the new system will reflect skill a lot more.
Anyways, the USA bois better bring it home <3
I wouldn't mind that at all. It would give me an excuse to play some of my favorite maps again to solidify my fundamentals. Not to mention I'll capitalize on the player base rage quitting because I'm so anti-meta.Winner wrote: 532i1v
I think it's a bit too late for that. Would have to wipe all scores on leaderboards or make an entirely new leaderboard.Decon082 wrote: 5v6e6n
now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
Probably because the team isn't exactly being pre-picked by the country. Since all registrations are individual, they probably want to pick someone who they don't think will choose teammates based on personal bias (ie. picking friends over better players).Xilver wrote: 1l325z
May I please ask for the logic behind captains being selected by the management team and not by the team itself? Not trying to start anything, I just don't particularly agree with that decision and I'd like to hear your line of reasoning behind it.
Even if it's a temporary pick, I'm assuming the reason you pick the captain is for the captain to choose a team, right?
Maybe I'm completely wrong though.
edit: also the country-picked captain might not be able to play which would cause confusion (since no more captain).
Speaking of which, does the temporary captain have to end up in the team? If a country has decided (in their forum section or channel or tournament etc.) whom to select for their team, and the captain chosen isn't among any of them, would this temporary captain be able to pick the 8 players and then not participate themselves?Bauxe wrote: l5c1p
Probably because the team isn't exactly being pre-picked by the country. Since all registrations are individual, they probably want to pick someone who they don't think will choose teammates based on personal bias (ie. picking friends over better players).Xilver wrote: 1l325z
May I please ask for the logic behind captains being selected by the management team and not by the team itself? Not trying to start anything, I just don't particularly agree with that decision and I'd like to hear your line of reasoning behind it.
Even if it's a temporary pick, I'm assuming the reason you pick the captain is for the captain to choose a team, right?
Maybe I'm completely wrong though.
edit: also the country-picked captain might not be able to play which would cause confusion (since no more captain).
Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
https://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/wiki/Help_CenterKevEz wrote: 6x11r
Just want to clarify something, if i have proof that i am from Mexico does that make me eligable at all to play for the Mexican team or do i have to try to play for the country i reside in?
Based off of what I'm looking at, it is proof of residency. So if you really are from Mexico, that would mean that you could technically play for Mexico, provided you own a home there and you have a Mexican ID.
Hong Kong hype!Makan1 wrote: 3l554
lets not see a repeat of last year yeah....
hong kong pls no disappoint this year lol
But no SiLviZ ;W;
Didn't osu become an esport? No?Evrien wrote: 2t4lr
Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
*takes my leave*
OWC is on a completely different level to All-Star. Pretty sure most of the All-Star games only got a few hundred viewers, OWC gets easily into the thousands (I think it even went above 10,000 in the grand final last year?).Evrien wrote: 2t4lr
Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
We topped at 13k, if I'm ing correctly.Bauxe wrote: l5c1p
OWC is on a completely different level to All-Star. Pretty sure most of the All-Star games only got a few hundred viewers, OWC gets easily into the thousands (I think it even went above 10,000 in the grand final last year?).Evrien wrote: 2t4lr
Just wanna say good luck to the management team and thanks for putting effort in revolutionizing the tournament structure. Hope all goes well! I however would like to show some concern for the $5,000 prize pool since it's quite big...really. All-Star promised a $500 one and that was already considered grand-scale. Why $5,000 if I may ask?
Captains are a sole communication medium.
Captains do not need to end up in the team ultimatively, neither do they have to be present at every match. If our declared captain does want to play, they can pick 8 different players and declare a different captain.
Considering that in the past, all teams were created in a community consensus by figuring out together who will be in the team, we trust in the same mechanic here. Even if the captain delivers us the final player list and received the candidate list, most of them will decide by asking around instead of picking from their guts. Many will open a discussion publicly and make it a group decision as it always was. The only remnant is that the declared captain is our messenger.
We had several issues in particular communities being super bitchy about who is the captain, who gets in the team, even forming two parallel teams and I had to decide who ends up in the cup. This is bullshit and pointless drama. (Right Ryosuke-? You were causing this bullcrap in last year)
Declaring captains as messenger and (in some cases) final call makers, we can avoid any sort of needless team creation drama and make everything run smoothly and fair. We always aim to pick captains that are reasonable, accessible and totally not focused on their circle jerk only. Being captain in the past without issues promotes you for the position, but does not guarantee it. The choices of captains will land on people that we consider to make the most fair and organized decision.
The individual registrations allow us to do the rule violation checks without crushing team rosters over and over again. We can avoid the entire hassle and move the team creation AFTER everyone was filtered. This avoids the 500 times of "I fixed my roster, here is the new". With this new approach, you can only pick from the candidates list and your team will be safe to be created in any case.
Moreover it allows countries to form teams that would otherwise never be able to create a team, because they are unaware of each other. We had potential teams of Mongolia, Israel, Venezuela, Vietnam and other places in the previous world cups.
Ah yeah, the only downside is, when less than 8 people the filters for a country. Usually the countries are weaker and maybe don't end up in the last 32, but sometimes they do. Then all players just get mocked up in one team and we declare a captain, but as always, they can switch around this position as they want. If you have less than 8 people in your country validly ing, there is not much to choose from a list...
OWC Grand Finals peaked in Twitch at #5 most viewed worldwide across all games and peaked momentarily to 16-20,000 viewers, having over 150 000 unique viewers across the entire tournament. (I should recheck that, I don't have the numbers in mind anymore)
Captains do not need to end up in the team ultimatively, neither do they have to be present at every match. If our declared captain does want to play, they can pick 8 different players and declare a different captain.
Considering that in the past, all teams were created in a community consensus by figuring out together who will be in the team, we trust in the same mechanic here. Even if the captain delivers us the final player list and received the candidate list, most of them will decide by asking around instead of picking from their guts. Many will open a discussion publicly and make it a group decision as it always was. The only remnant is that the declared captain is our messenger.
We had several issues in particular communities being super bitchy about who is the captain, who gets in the team, even forming two parallel teams and I had to decide who ends up in the cup. This is bullshit and pointless drama. (Right Ryosuke-? You were causing this bullcrap in last year)
Declaring captains as messenger and (in some cases) final call makers, we can avoid any sort of needless team creation drama and make everything run smoothly and fair. We always aim to pick captains that are reasonable, accessible and totally not focused on their circle jerk only. Being captain in the past without issues promotes you for the position, but does not guarantee it. The choices of captains will land on people that we consider to make the most fair and organized decision.
The individual registrations allow us to do the rule violation checks without crushing team rosters over and over again. We can avoid the entire hassle and move the team creation AFTER everyone was filtered. This avoids the 500 times of "I fixed my roster, here is the new". With this new approach, you can only pick from the candidates list and your team will be safe to be created in any case.
Moreover it allows countries to form teams that would otherwise never be able to create a team, because they are unaware of each other. We had potential teams of Mongolia, Israel, Venezuela, Vietnam and other places in the previous world cups.
Ah yeah, the only downside is, when less than 8 people the filters for a country. Usually the countries are weaker and maybe don't end up in the last 32, but sometimes they do. Then all players just get mocked up in one team and we declare a captain, but as always, they can switch around this position as they want. If you have less than 8 people in your country validly ing, there is not much to choose from a list...
OWC Grand Finals peaked in Twitch at #5 most viewed worldwide across all games and peaked momentarily to 16-20,000 viewers, having over 150 000 unique viewers across the entire tournament. (I should recheck that, I don't have the numbers in mind anymore)
Well I think CTB works well with both Combo-dominated and Accuracy-dominated scoring system D: Since a droplet is worth as much accuracy as an actual fruit combo, it's not fair for people who caught the combos in rhythm and lose some droplets due to control issue and get penalised equally as someone who lost rhythm and caught the droplets, that kind of defeats the purpose of a rhythm game. But on the flip side, people take accuracy in CTB for granted since literally a it has the least score value of only 10, thus many players can just blatantly ignore droplets all they want, they can miss a thousand droplets and have one combo more and still be ahead than another player with no droplet misses but 1 combo less, that's like in Osu!Standard , a 1000 combo map FC'ed with 1000 50s would still weigh millions ahead of a 999 combo of 300s with a miss at the end, accuracy shouldn't be disregarded as the least important factor in any game mode, also not to mention on maps like Yoiyami Hanabi SS is a whole lot better than S and should be awarded as accordingly when people are skilled enough to catch all the little things.Decon082 wrote: 5v6e6n
now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please
My long wall of text opinion as always D:
I have an idea about the Accuracy VS Combo weightage adjustment!! How about we have some formular that goes similarly to:
(Percentage Accuracy)^20 x Map Score x SS Bonus (1.06 times score multiplier) = Final Score
E.g. Team A = Players 1 to 4 Team B = Players 5 to 8
Player 1:
Map Score: 10,000,000 (no miss + a few 100s)
Accuracy: 98.32% (98.32%^20 = 0.71258618367)
Final Score: 7,125,862
Player 2:
Map Score: 10,170,871 (SS)
Accuracy: 100.00% (x1.06)
Final Score: 10,781,123
Player 3:
Map Score: 9,758,951 (no miss + full of 100s & 50s B rank)
Accuracy: 95.95% (95.95%^20 = 0.43742095198)
Final Score: 4,268,770
Player 4: (Disconnected)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0
Team A Total Score: 22,176,755
Player 5:
Map Score: 10,156,632 (no miss + 1 less 100 than Player 1)
Accuracy: 98.55% (98.55%^20 = 0.74667665341)
Final Score: 7,583,720
Player 6:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717
Player 7:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717
Player 8: (Failed)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0
Team B Total Score: 22,947,154
Team B wins the map by 770,399 points \o/ (3.47% more score than Team A)
The numerical values of the multipliers and exponents and even the format & functions etc are not fixed XD They are just random examples of how having a formular that evens out the Combo VS Accuracy power struggle can make the matches themselves and their end results contain more suspense and anticipation, thus more exciting and unexpected :3
(Percentage Accuracy)^20 x Map Score x SS Bonus (1.06 times score multiplier) = Final Score
E.g. Team A = Players 1 to 4 Team B = Players 5 to 8
Player 1:
Map Score: 10,000,000 (no miss + a few 100s)
Accuracy: 98.32% (98.32%^20 = 0.71258618367)
Final Score: 7,125,862
Player 2:
Map Score: 10,170,871 (SS)
Accuracy: 100.00% (x1.06)
Final Score: 10,781,123
Player 3:
Map Score: 9,758,951 (no miss + full of 100s & 50s B rank)
Accuracy: 95.95% (95.95%^20 = 0.43742095198)
Final Score: 4,268,770
Player 4: (Disconnected)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0
Team A Total Score: 22,176,755
Player 5:
Map Score: 10,156,632 (no miss + 1 less 100 than Player 1)
Accuracy: 98.55% (98.55%^20 = 0.74667665341)
Final Score: 7,583,720
Player 6:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717
Player 7:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717
Player 8: (Failed)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0
Team B Total Score: 22,947,154
Team B wins the map by 770,399 points \o/ (3.47% more score than Team A)
The numerical values of the multipliers and exponents and even the format & functions etc are not fixed XD They are just random examples of how having a formular that evens out the Combo VS Accuracy power struggle can make the matches themselves and their end results contain more suspense and anticipation, thus more exciting and unexpected :3
No... just no....
Giving a bonus for a SS is stupid and a changing map score that isn't defined until the end is also kinda unnecessary.
That also doesn't take combo into and the drop from low acc is too huge. A 80% score fc would mean nothing, you could get a 99% with tons of misses and you would get a score that's over 70 times bigger than the 80% fc (that's an extreme case that is not likely to happen but still...)
Giving a bonus for a SS is stupid and a changing map score that isn't defined until the end is also kinda unnecessary.
That also doesn't take combo into and the drop from low acc is too huge. A 80% score fc would mean nothing, you could get a 99% with tons of misses and you would get a score that's over 70 times bigger than the 80% fc (that's an extreme case that is not likely to happen but still...)
We just suggested some people that could do some good work here. I'm pretty sure none of the commentators involved here followed the All-Star tournament that I was talking about and noticed that you could use some of them as they're not just good at commentating live events during the game, but also have some good knowledge of players, maps and game mechanics in general. This tournament lacks casters like this.
Firstly I don't understand what you meant by "changing map score that isn't defined until the end", my intent is to precisely tell that we should modifyr the score after the map is already over, could you re-phrase your point?tfg50 wrote: 4s1w4p
No... just no....
Giving a bonus for a SS is stupid and a changing map score that isn't defined until the end is also kinda unnecessary.
That also doesn't take combo into and the drop from low acc is too huge. A 80% score fc would mean nothing, you could get a 99% with tons of misses and you would get a score that's over 70 times bigger than the 80% fc (that's an extreme case that is not likely to happen but still...)
Secondly 80% accuracy in Standard is actually pretty bad :C And in all honesty especially in a tournament scenario if one's accuracy falls below 95% I can simply conclude generally that he/she is either not skilled enough at that stage or not able to practise the map diligently, and thus shall not rightfully emerge victorious. That's the philosophical cornerstone of the concept of competition in the first place.
Thirly Osu! as a rhythm game, where the rhythm element is measured by rate of accuracy and the game element is measured by proficiency in movement/reaction (AKA get combo), it makes little sense to weigh one above another, therefore I see the validity in the managements' decision to pull up the importance of accuracy even though players are used to being obsessed with combos and are reluctant to accept this change however reasonable.
Last but not least back to my own point in my previous post, I would like to clarify once more that I've stated CLEARLY in bold that all numerical values and functions are just EXAMPLES for illustration purposes only, to help readers understand through usage of analogies about how a score formular helps to balance out the issues with combo and accuracy, and how the multipliers and exponents stated above are NOT FINALISED or NON-NEGOTIABLE or even necessary in the first place
My intent is to present the idea of formulars, not to get nitty-gritty with the technicality of the values involved. If you wish to argue that formulars are bad ideas, please stay on point on why formulars are bad. Anyway just to add on, everything in Osu! is pretty much calculated by formulars, like scores, accuracy, pp, even the basic model of 50% acc 50% combo is also a formular, but just too simplistic in my opinion to work fairly, which is why I suggested a more complex formular. To me there are only 2 ways to go about this: One is to stick with the old model of score wins and score only, or two get a good enough formular that makes thing fair and fun for the most, it's really that simple D:
I second this notion. While ztrot can make up for the gap in skills using his experience, I don't think this should be the case for all commentators. I casted for All-Star and OCWT and know how valuable the opinion from someone of a higher rank is - they see maps differently and can sometimes point to very interesting details that would remain invisible to a mundane player's eyes.Minifrij wrote: 6p3n23
While I have no problems with any of the commentators, nor am I saying that they should be scrapped, having three people with the max rank of about 14k talk about players who are usually under rank 1k is a bit silly. Having Raiku last year to commentate made things a lot better for me.
And I'm certain that there will be players in the community willing to jump in for OWC. So if this is a viable, please consider this.
If you had several issues, don't name me, or anyone else by the way. Everyone moved on, quoting someone from something that happened last year isn't a good way to start any tournament. If someone who was involved is still upset about that last owc, I am open to any discussion. So far my case was only related to who gets to be captain, good thing you now choose. Wish that World Cup to be successful.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
We had several issues in particular communities being super bitchy about who is the captain, who gets in the team, even forming two parallel teams and I had to decide who ends up in the cup. This is bullshit and pointless drama. (Right Ryosuke-? You were causing this bullcrap in last year)
Second this here, commentators should be top players or above average players who have caught up most what is going on among the top players in these days. They should be well known by the community as well along with their experiences and reputation. Getting some of well known streamers who are capable in their English and experienced in today maps wouldn't hurt. No offense, not saying that deadbeat, Tasha and ztrot are incapable in the sense of commentator, but do they really know what players actually feel like when they are competing? do they know what part of the particular maps will be crucial, difficult, peaked or combo breakers for most of players so that it can be more entertaining during the matches if they add up? do they know how well each player is good or bad at when discussing during the breaks? do they know what is going on among the top players in general? These 3 commentators aren't close to what can be considered good players. I don't think they actually have the knowledge in general as they could be busy moderating as staffs rather than playing competitively.fartownik wrote: 3l1h
We just suggested some people that could do some good work here. I'm pretty sure none of the commentators involved here followed the All-Star tournament that I was talking about and noticed that you could use some of them as they're not just good at commentating live events during the game, but also have some good knowledge of players, maps and game mechanics in general. This tournament lacks casters like this.
Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.
Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3
Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3
Seconded.Azlynn wrote: 6l5y30
Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.
Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3
Otherwise I have no chance.
Watch past OWC matches and then compare them with the recent All-Star ones.Azlynn wrote: 6l5y30
Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.
Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3
fartownik wrote: 3l1h
Watch past OWC matches and then compare them with the recent All-Star ones.
Extrapolating recent instances of something to prove your point doesn't make your point any stronger.
The fact of the matter is that it absolutely does not require players of extreme skill to commentate. You need charismatic individuals who are willing to learn about the necessary aspects of the game to talk about them as they happen. Having someone who is extremely well versed in the technical side of things will make commentary sound more professional, but too much of it will make it sound foreign to people who don't play the game as much. If what I'm hearing in the thread is true, this tournament typically racks up tens of thousands of viewers at one given time, and I'd be willing to guarantee that not all of them are savants at the game, either.
Someone also made a good point too: there's a risk with letting irresponsible people commentate, and there are a number of individuals in this thread expressing interest that have already shown pretty noticeable signs of immaturity.
No.Halogen- wrote: 4h2pe
Extrapolating recent instances of something to prove your point doesn't make your point any stronger.
The fact of the matter is that it absolutely does not require players of extreme skill to commentate. You need charismatic individuals who are willing to learn about the necessary aspects of the game to talk about them as they happen. Having someone who is extremely well versed in the technical side of things will make commentary sound more professional, but too much of it will make it sound foreign to people who don't play the game as much. If what I'm hearing in the thread is true, this tournament typically racks up tens of thousands of viewers at one given time, and I'd be willing to guarantee that not all of them are savants at the game, either.
Someone also made a good point too: there's a risk with letting irresponsible people commentate, and there are a number of individuals in this thread expressing interest that have already shown pretty noticeable signs of immaturity.
If it's All-Star we're talking about, if anything, it proves the point that rank and skill isn't everything when it comes to commentating. There's Forz, who has exceptional skill in many different aspects of the game, and that shows in his casting, there's Evrien, who is reasonably high-ranked and definitely knows what he's talking about, there's also Monz, who, despite not having a "top-tier" rank, has already been mentioned and is in fact a brilliant caster. All three are at different levels in of gameplay skill and yet they are all amazing commentators, if only because they bring different flavors to the table. It's important to that as long as you know enough about the game, technical aspects aren't the only thing to focus on as a caster, you'll have to talk for a while and being able to manage that time without becoming boring is very important, particularly if your audience is 5 digits strong.
Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3
While having more commentators on would be great, I personally believe bringing on too many or having anymore than four commentators would be a bit too much. I found that with more commentators, there are more instances where each tries to talk over one another or a commentator accidentally speaks at the same time as another (Mr Color I'm looking at you). While okay in isolated incidents, having this occur often is a real flow-breaker and seems pretty unprofessional (take this from someone who has commentated for an official tournament and has had this happen at times). This can probably be remedied with some rehearsal, but for spontaneous, off the cuff conversations, things can get a little murky. I think two-three commentators live at one time is a good number to avoid this.
Halogen-'s point shouldn't be ignored as well - knowing that players have to undergo checks, I can only imagine the extra steps required to be a commentator live on air, in front of thousands of potential players and fans. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to have better commentary if possible, but I'm not entirely sure adding on more people will be the right way to do it. Maybe have more streams with different commentators for different games?
Looking forward to a hype owc this year, can't believe this is my third owc I'll be around to watch already!
Halogen-'s point shouldn't be ignored as well - knowing that players have to undergo checks, I can only imagine the extra steps required to be a commentator live on air, in front of thousands of potential players and fans. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to have better commentary if possible, but I'm not entirely sure adding on more people will be the right way to do it. Maybe have more streams with different commentators for different games?
Looking forward to a hype owc this year, can't believe this is my third owc I'll be around to watch already!
I think the idea was to have more commentators in general, not necessarily at the same time as each other.
I hear you on the topic of interruptions though, it sounds bad when it happens, and if you've got more than 3 casters at once, it's bound to occur. The limit should be 3, never more than that, and maybe 2 if one of the casters is a bit talkative. It's more about finding people that do well together in the casting box than anything else, if you've got good synergy with the other person that's half the battle won.
I hear you on the topic of interruptions though, it sounds bad when it happens, and if you've got more than 3 casters at once, it's bound to occur. The limit should be 3, never more than that, and maybe 2 if one of the casters is a bit talkative. It's more about finding people that do well together in the casting box than anything else, if you've got good synergy with the other person that's half the battle won.
The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating (unless one of them is out for the time being, for which case a sub can be found). Having commentator rotations could be neat, but highly unneccessary for something of this nature (at least in my own opinion).
Some people are unsatisfied with the current commmentary lineup, or would just like to hear different voices every once in a while, I think that's the main driving force behind the call for different/more commentators this year. My opinion on this is biased, but keeping things fresh is never a bad thing.Lust wrote: 6b1j1z
The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating (unless one of them is out for the time being, for which case a sub can be found). Having commentator rotations could be neat, but highly unneccessary for something of this nature (at least in my own opinion).
Whatever it takes to make the best tournament, that's the bottom line. Whether that means no changes, or yes changes is the consideration i guess. It'll be up to the management to make the call when it's all said and done.
I understand where you are coming from, but you don't seem to have been around much. The reason why many of the players you see here raising this issue in this thread is because they feel that there are players who can be BOTH high ranked AND charismatic/caster-capable enough to man the position. And these top players who run streams on Twitch on a regular basis (loliforz, Azer, HappyStick, Doomsday, Tokichii, Jesus1412, list goes on) are used to talking in front of hundreds and we thus have valid reasons to trust that they have the skills.Azlynn wrote: 6l5y30
Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.
Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3
We do not in any way say that the official casters are inferior - this is a qualitative statement that we can't prove statistically. We are merely saying that other people are just as ready able and willing, and there should be a window through which they can posit themselves forward - that is, if Loctav is considering this already and if so I rest my case.
While guest commentating isn't inherently a bad thing (hell, I'd love to have some fresh voices with varied experience on board), the point I made earlier is that having tons of people on air at once can lead to a pretty rough atmosphere if not rehearsed beforehand. Having things like post-match breakdowns/highlights, interviews, and discussions could be interesting and would be neat to have with more guests but has to be worked into the tight schedule that they run on already. Pretty much why osu! talk discussions on the matches occur after the round ends from what I've seen haha.StarrStyx wrote: 55366
I think the idea was to have other commentators as guests and not full time owc casters. Also the idea I pointed out a few pages back also mentioned about guest casting for other commentators from other tourneys.
I know this sounds farfetched and most likely very difficult to pull off, but having more than one stream with different casters could remedy this quite nicely. While having more than one game going on can be unfair to whichever is the least popular, each stream can reference one another and have maybe a scoreboard somewhere that lists the scores of the other match (like in football/soccer matches!).
Oh yeah, I'd totally love to hear different people on the mic - I just think with the current situation having more than what we have right now + give or take one or two people could be unrealistic. Lets see what happens moving forward!rfandomization wrote: 6i371g
Some people are unsatisfied with the current commmentary lineup, or would just like to hear different voices every once in a while, I think that's the main driving force behind the call for different/more commentators this year. My opinion on this is biased, but keeping things fresh is never a bad thing.Lust wrote: 6b1j1z
The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating (unless one of them is out for the time being, for which case a sub can be found). Having commentator rotations could be neat, but highly unneccessary for something of this nature (at least in my own opinion).
Whatever it takes to make the best tournament, that's the bottom line. Whether that means no changes, or yes changes is the consideration i guess. It'll be up to the management to make the call when it's all said and done.
Couldn't have said it better myself, although it would be interesting to have an experienced mapper and modder on board that is aware of the current meta that can provide valuable insights during the gamesEvrien wrote: 2t4lr
I understand where you are coming from, but you don't seem to have been around much. The reason why many of the players you see here raising this issue in this thread is because they feel that there are players who can be BOTH high ranked AND charismatic/caster-capable enough to man the position. And these top players who run streams on Twitch on a regular basis (loliforz, Azer, HappyStick, Doomsday, Tokichii, Jesus1412, list goes on) are used to talking in front of hundreds and we thus have valid reasons to trust that they have the skills.Azlynn wrote: 6l5y30
Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.
Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3
We do not in any way say that the official casters are inferior - this is a qualitative statement that we can't prove statistically. We are merely saying that other people are just as ready able and willing, and there should be a window through which they can posit themselves forward - that is, if Loctav is considering this already and if so I rest my case.
The issue doesn't reside in people being dicks or yelling Hitler slogans in the commentary, the issue lies in what I expect to happen in the commentary. Whatever you think is required to be a commentator, it correlates not much with your playing skill.
I agree that giving the participants self a platform to the casts between the matches (if feasible) is a nice idea, hiring 5-20 commentators looks like needless bulk of people to organize and rotate around. ztrot, Tasha and deadbeat are the solid core. They will commentate it. You lose the overall perception of planning ahead. While I understand that your interest only resolves mostly around this tournament in particular, there are actually 5 world cups every year. I am not planning to exchange the core commentary every time.
The point is not issuesome people. The point is unreliable people. The point is people having an idea but having no guts to commentate. The point is that people are obfuscating their commentary to a level that the majority of the viewers are incapable of understanding it. Yes, you participants are ALL profenient in this game, used to , used to some sort of meta. Our viewers are not. You might think that the commentary is very basic because the commentators have no clue and are just brabbling basic stuff. No. That's an instruction made by us. You are free to follow mania and ctb tournaments. I heard a lot that the same people having an idea about standard only found the commentary in the CWC alright. However, they found the OWC one shit. Why? Because they had no clue about CtB, therefore found the CWC one okay. But when it was about the OWC, it was too simple for them. In fact, both commentaries were made on the same level of understanding, usage of , repetitive explanation of basic gameplay mechanics, etc.
I watched the allstar stuff occasionally. It was well made for the audience of professional or established players. But it was alienating the entire idea of the game with insider , abbreviations, lack of basic explanations, that the average clueless viewer would have not understood it.
Read twice what Halogen- said. Read it three times, even. He sums it up perfectly fine. Also, you are unsatisfied because you are comparing a one year old tournament with a recent one, while we hosted 4!! other world cups meanwhile, with an entire different roster of commentators every time. The comparison is invalid. Please pick up the MWC4K for valid comparisons in future. This goes for every comparison anyways. Every change or setup you see in the OWC was actually already present in 4 previous tournaments. I would appreciate if you would not always refer to the oldest tournament to make your points, as we fixed things with every single other tournament.
What ztrot is referring to that some people started to raid personal s of him to bribe themselves into the commentary. If you are interested, claim your interest appropriately. Bugging the heck out of someone's peer group or friends pretty much excludes you for being unreasonable and attentionwhory. We also exclude everyone that is doing this only for their own welfare (more fame, more popularity, etc.) we also exclude everyone that is too self-centered, too proud of their skill, etc. A long list of character traits is involved here. ztrot makes the final calls here, however, make your interest in this known in a professional and proper way.
We also have no need for one hit wonders that only commentate when it floats their boat. You are interested? Then be willed to wake up at 3am and commentate 8 hours straight if needed. Unreliable? Too much obligation? Then this is nothing for you.
Interested in non-existent sleep schedules, being on constant coffee, talking 8-12 hours straight without peeing for the next 7 weekends? Being full of hype, able to break down your knowledge to the very basics? Capable of explaining things? Charismatic? Good microphone? Good team worker? No arrogant asshole? Be my guest!
I agree that giving the participants self a platform to the casts between the matches (if feasible) is a nice idea, hiring 5-20 commentators looks like needless bulk of people to organize and rotate around. ztrot, Tasha and deadbeat are the solid core. They will commentate it. You lose the overall perception of planning ahead. While I understand that your interest only resolves mostly around this tournament in particular, there are actually 5 world cups every year. I am not planning to exchange the core commentary every time.
The point is not issuesome people. The point is unreliable people. The point is people having an idea but having no guts to commentate. The point is that people are obfuscating their commentary to a level that the majority of the viewers are incapable of understanding it. Yes, you participants are ALL profenient in this game, used to , used to some sort of meta. Our viewers are not. You might think that the commentary is very basic because the commentators have no clue and are just brabbling basic stuff. No. That's an instruction made by us. You are free to follow mania and ctb tournaments. I heard a lot that the same people having an idea about standard only found the commentary in the CWC alright. However, they found the OWC one shit. Why? Because they had no clue about CtB, therefore found the CWC one okay. But when it was about the OWC, it was too simple for them. In fact, both commentaries were made on the same level of understanding, usage of , repetitive explanation of basic gameplay mechanics, etc.
I watched the allstar stuff occasionally. It was well made for the audience of professional or established players. But it was alienating the entire idea of the game with insider , abbreviations, lack of basic explanations, that the average clueless viewer would have not understood it.
Read twice what Halogen- said. Read it three times, even. He sums it up perfectly fine. Also, you are unsatisfied because you are comparing a one year old tournament with a recent one, while we hosted 4!! other world cups meanwhile, with an entire different roster of commentators every time. The comparison is invalid. Please pick up the MWC4K for valid comparisons in future. This goes for every comparison anyways. Every change or setup you see in the OWC was actually already present in 4 previous tournaments. I would appreciate if you would not always refer to the oldest tournament to make your points, as we fixed things with every single other tournament.
What ztrot is referring to that some people started to raid personal s of him to bribe themselves into the commentary. If you are interested, claim your interest appropriately. Bugging the heck out of someone's peer group or friends pretty much excludes you for being unreasonable and attentionwhory. We also exclude everyone that is doing this only for their own welfare (more fame, more popularity, etc.) we also exclude everyone that is too self-centered, too proud of their skill, etc. A long list of character traits is involved here. ztrot makes the final calls here, however, make your interest in this known in a professional and proper way.
We also have no need for one hit wonders that only commentate when it floats their boat. You are interested? Then be willed to wake up at 3am and commentate 8 hours straight if needed. Unreliable? Too much obligation? Then this is nothing for you.
Interested in non-existent sleep schedules, being on constant coffee, talking 8-12 hours straight without peeing for the next 7 weekends? Being full of hype, able to break down your knowledge to the very basics? Capable of explaining things? Charismatic? Good microphone? Good team worker? No arrogant asshole? Be my guest!
I don't have and opinion on if old owc tournaments have had good commentary or not, but:
I generally find 1 charismatic commentator paired up with one analytic commentator usually works out really well. One brings the hype, while the other infodumps basically. A lot of people commentating at the same time usually leads to people talking over each other, or someone not talking much at all. It's much easier to keep it balanced with 2 people on the mic.
Also, I don't think people think that the charismatic people aren't needed, but that some higher skilled players might be a nice addition to the commentary.
Obviously you'd need someone with time, dedication and everything, and someone also competing is probably not really a good idea, but having say 3 commentary pairs and a commentary schedule could be really helpful in both getting enough rest and time to find a rhythm to commentating for the pair (if they are kept the same).
That's why you have more than 3 people commentating, and you switch them up so commentators get adequate breaksLoctav wrote: 5b1v22
Interested in non-existent sleep schedules, being on constant coffee, talking 8-12 hours straight without peeing for the next 7 weekends? Being full of hype, able to break down your knowledge to the very basics?
I generally find 1 charismatic commentator paired up with one analytic commentator usually works out really well. One brings the hype, while the other infodumps basically. A lot of people commentating at the same time usually leads to people talking over each other, or someone not talking much at all. It's much easier to keep it balanced with 2 people on the mic.
Also, I don't think people think that the charismatic people aren't needed, but that some higher skilled players might be a nice addition to the commentary.
Obviously you'd need someone with time, dedication and everything, and someone also competing is probably not really a good idea, but having say 3 commentary pairs and a commentary schedule could be really helpful in both getting enough rest and time to find a rhythm to commentating for the pair (if they are kept the same).
Unfortunately, experience prove that it is hard to find people that stick to schedules reliably. The general idea of rotating commentators out is a given and clear, but we recruited people from all over the places and the current core team is the only bunch I can plan with a 99% reliability. In last years OWC, this was not a given. (Reliability resolved around 60%)
I know we need to have a bigger core team, but this core team should exist for all 5 world cups. Because finding reliable people is hard here.
I know we need to have a bigger core team, but this core team should exist for all 5 world cups. Because finding reliable people is hard here.
This 100%. It's not like peppy actually pays $$$ to commentators. Thus, no matter how much the commentators want to work the matches, real life and real occupations take priority.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
Unfortunately, experience prove that it is hard to find people that stick to schedules reliably. The general idea of rotating commentators out is a given and clear, but we recruited people from all over the places and the current core team is the only bunch I can plan with a 99% reliability. In last years OWC, this was not a given. (Reliability resolved around 60%)
I know we need to have a bigger core team, but this core team should exist for all 5 world cups. Because finding reliable people is hard here.
I see, I do agree that combo matters too much right now but if player A gets a 200 combo 99% score and tons of misses and player B gets fc 1200 combo and 90% score, player B deserves more score (that kind of scenario does happen all the time with me, I'm player A). With the numbers that you said (ofc, this is just an example, as you said that could be tweaked) player B would get at least 5 times less score. That's kinda unfair even if you take combo off the equation.He Ang Erika wrote: 3r134f
Firstly I don't understand what you meant by "changing map score that isn't defined until the end", my intent is to precisely tell that we should modifyr the score after the map is already over, could you re-phrase your point?tfg50 wrote: 4s1w4p
No... just no....
Giving a bonus for a SS is stupid and a changing map score that isn't defined until the end is also kinda unnecessary.
That also doesn't take combo into and the drop from low acc is too huge. A 80% score fc would mean nothing, you could get a 99% with tons of misses and you would get a score that's over 70 times bigger than the 80% fc (that's an extreme case that is not likely to happen but still...)
Secondly 80% accuracy in Standard is actually pretty bad :C And in all honesty especially in a tournament scenario if one's accuracy falls below 95% I can simply conclude generally that he/she is either not skilled enough at that stage or not able to practise the map diligently, and thus shall not rightfully emerge victorious. That's the philosophical cornerstone of the concept of competition in the first place.
Thirly Osu! as a rhythm game, where the rhythm element is measured by rate of accuracy and the game element is measured by proficiency in movement/reaction (AKA get combo), it makes little sense to weigh one above another, therefore I see the validity in the managements' decision to pull up the importance of accuracy even though players are used to being obsessed with combos and are reluctant to accept this change however reasonable.
Last but not least back to my own point in my previous post, I would like to clarify once more that I've stated CLEARLY in bold that all numerical values and functions are just EXAMPLES for illustration purposes only, to help readers understand through usage of analogies about how a score formular helps to balance out the issues with combo and accuracy, and how the multipliers and exponents stated above are NOT FINALISED or NON-NEGOTIABLE or even necessary in the first place
What I meant by changing stuff that isn't defined until the end is that there is a max score like mania but your score can't be calculated before the end, so matches would feel really awkward with misses (and missed stream specially) reducing your score instead of simply diminishing the score gain.
The new score system will probably just make the scaling less drastic (idk how the combo bonus is calculated but something like combo^(1/2) might be enough assuming it scales linearly with combo) or use a internal combo meter that caps or doesn't go all the way down after missing just once.
As I mentioned in my post, I haven't been around osu! long but I've been involved with rhythm games for 12 years. I've been staff for 5 years on another rhythm game site and have a good working knowledge on what's necessary when it comes to these things. High level player doesn't = good commentator and not so good player doesn't = bad commentator. I just think the mentality a lot of people here have of the person having to be a good player to be a good commentator isn't a good one to have. If the person has a good personality and knows the mechanics of the game they can likely commentate it fine. You also can't throw too many people into it otherwise it's hard for people to talk, you end up tripping on one another.Evrien wrote: 2t4lr
I understand where you are coming from, but you don't seem to have been around much. The reason why many of the players you see here raising this issue in this thread is because they feel that there are players who can be BOTH high ranked AND charismatic/caster-capable enough to man the position. And these top players who run streams on Twitch on a regular basis (loliforz, Azer, HappyStick, Doomsday, Tokichii, Jesus1412, list goes on) are used to talking in front of hundreds and we thus have valid reasons to trust that they have the skills.
We do not in any way say that the official casters are inferior - this is a qualitative statement that we can't prove statistically. We are merely saying that other people are just as ready able and willing, and there should be a window through which they can posit themselves forward - that is, if Loctav is considering this already and if so I rest my case.
This happens in every online game tournament, there is one side that wants an experienced, insightful caster (i.e. merlini), and then there is another with what is known as a "hype" caster (i.e. tobiwan).
Players that prefer more game-experienced casters tend to be players that are veteran at the game already, whereas more casual or new players lean towards hype casters. It's logical to pick hype casters over experienced casters, because hype caters more towards the newer players. The problem is that by taking a look at the caster roster for this year, it's obvious that the participating casters aren't that great at the game they're going to commentate
I don't think anybody actually minds the casters, but they would prefer an additional game-experienced caster, so that the commentating will cater both sides of the spectrum rather than newer/casual players.
Just my 2c but I hope you take this post into consideration ztrot, and have an additional caster that leans towards game-experience rather than hype
Players that prefer more game-experienced casters tend to be players that are veteran at the game already, whereas more casual or new players lean towards hype casters. It's logical to pick hype casters over experienced casters, because hype caters more towards the newer players. The problem is that by taking a look at the caster roster for this year, it's obvious that the participating casters aren't that great at the game they're going to commentate
I don't think anybody actually minds the casters, but they would prefer an additional game-experienced caster, so that the commentating will cater both sides of the spectrum rather than newer/casual players.
Just my 2c but I hope you take this post into consideration ztrot, and have an additional caster that leans towards game-experience rather than hype
It is weird for me to see that you think they all have no game experience. They might not be in the top ranks, but you don't need to be there to understand this game. Don't make it look like osu! is wicked rocket science. Sure there are things that require some sort of knowledge, but you don't need to be a top player to understand what is going on always. After all, it's clicking circles.
ztrot is here since the beginning of osu!, deadbeat is here almost as long as I am. Tasha is a well rounded person, knowing multiple game modes perfectly fine.
I think this argument is a bit exaggerated. Calling the current roster inexperienced in this game is a bit insulting, even. I mean, they are all osu! veterans, too. They just never bothered rushing and farming to the top ranks. Yet they are here forever and have very well an idea what this game is about and how it works on multiple levels.
Sure there needs to be one or two person who actually can play the maps for example. To transmit the true feeling of the picked maps. Or to transmit the feeling during the matches. But that's about it.
ztrot is here since the beginning of osu!, deadbeat is here almost as long as I am. Tasha is a well rounded person, knowing multiple game modes perfectly fine.
I think this argument is a bit exaggerated. Calling the current roster inexperienced in this game is a bit insulting, even. I mean, they are all osu! veterans, too. They just never bothered rushing and farming to the top ranks. Yet they are here forever and have very well an idea what this game is about and how it works on multiple levels.
Sure there needs to be one or two person who actually can play the maps for example. To transmit the true feeling of the picked maps. Or to transmit the feeling during the matches. But that's about it.
I'm sure having these people is what everyone is talking aboutLoctav wrote: 5b1v22
Sure there needs to be one or two person who actually can play the maps for example. To transmit the true feeling of the picked maps. Or to transmit the feeling during the matches. But that's about it.
As far as inexperience goes, I don't think people think they're inexperienced about the game overall, but there are some things that you can't really tell without actually playing the map. It's not often, but sometimes a pattern may feel really weird to play unless you're at a skill level where you can realistically FC the pattern most of the time. Since then you're basing the awkwardness off of you executing it wrong, rather than executing it right.
Oh well, if finding more dedicated people isn't going to work out, I guess having some good players to give insight to the commentators prior to the weekends would be nice. Seeing as you mention that you need such people already, I'm sure you're already on that though. Maybe you could also "interview" some teams and what their players feel about particular maps in the mapset? Would be good knowledge in general, as well as during said player/teams match as you would know more about where they in particular feel they can't do well etc.
While this is true, someone under 10k couldn't talk about how difficult hitting a certain pattern out of their skill range is. What is insanely difficult to them may be manageable or even easy to someone of a higher rank. On the same note, they couldn't talk about the stress or worries while being in a tournament like the OWC as they have never experienced it.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
It is weird for me to see that you think they all have no game experience. They might not be in the top ranks, but you don't need to be there to understand this game. Don't make it look like osu! is wicked rocket science. Sure there are things that require some sort of knowledge, but you don't need to be a top player to understand what is going on always. After all, it's clicking circles.
I don't think any of us are trying to suggest that the current commentators are bad at their jobs or should be dropped, but having someone skilled enough to convey things such as what I just listed could help the commentary somewhat. Much like you said here:
Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
Sure there needs to be one or two person who actually can play the maps for example. To transmit the true feeling of the picked maps. Or to transmit the feeling during the matches. But that's about it.
that hit exactly on the point, and i do really like fartowniks suggestion, since it is widely common to pair a hype caster with an insight caster. Or even having a third person that can give an insight of the match on the scorescreen, talking about what went wrong, plays that stood out etcLoctav wrote: 5b1v22
Sure there needs to be one or two person who actually can play the maps for example. To transmit the true feeling of the picked maps. Or to transmit the feeling during the matches. But that's about it.
An example would be like in csgo, it is getting very popular to invite pro players to give aftermatch analysis, or even pairing them up with another caster, and the community responds very positively to it
the biggest problem as you stated is finding the dedicated casters, but if the suggested casters in the previous posts are as good as the credit given to them, why not give them a shot? The worst scenario is that you end up with your 3 dedicated casters again, which is the current scenario anyway.
please, do not worry. Not one thing said here is falling on deaf ears I know what the community wants to see and I will make sure it gets something along those lines. But for those asking my personal friends and other of the community just stop. The choice was given to me to make I have been here since osu! was just starting I'm not going to take it down a path that I feel would impact it badly in of commentary I have a core group that can follow ques and stay on time, does this mean I'm not looking to expand? HEAVENS NO so please get the panties out of the bunch and have a little faith. I've got this