01:45 eeezzzeee: hi are you still around?
01:45 Slick: yeah
01:45 eeezzzeee: ok ok nice
01:45 eeezzzeee: im not going to write a mod
01:45 eeezzzeee: instead ill just talk to you
01:45 eeezzzeee: about some general mistakes
01:45 Slick: it would be better if you posted it...
01:46 Slick: oh
01:46 Slick: general mistakes can tell me
01:46 Slick: but things to fix i'd prefer post format
01:46 eeezzzeee: no i mean
01:46 eeezzzeee: i really cant make a mod post because there would be a lot of stuff on it
01:46 eeezzzeee: like too much..
01:46 eeezzzeee: LOL
01:46 Slick: xS
01:46 eeezzzeee: but again its just my opinion
01:46 eeezzzeee: you can disagree with me if you want
01:46 eeezzzeee: first thing i want to say is
01:47 eeezzzeee: the SV change is too much
01:47 eeezzzeee: like its understandable on the wub parts
01:47 eeezzzeee: but even normal parts you have sv change on every slider? lol
01:48 Slick: you should know i've been told this before
01:48 Slick: you're not the first to say the least xD
01:48 eeezzzeee: yeah...
01:48 Slick: sv changes themselves aren't a problem
01:48 eeezzzeee: like the player really needs to guess how long these sliders are
01:48 Slick: too big sv changes are a problem
01:49 eeezzzeee: oh yeah that goes into second
01:49 eeezzzeee: the rhythm of some sliders
01:49 eeezzzeee: i can find an example for this hold up
01:49 Slick: ignoring claps & kicks?
01:49 Slick: 01:58:404 (1,2,3,4,1,2) -
01:49 Slick: like this?
01:50 eeezzzeee: yeah yeah
01:50 Slick: subjective
01:50 eeezzzeee: its not so much about hitsounds as like
01:50 Slick: and doesn't interfere with ranking
01:50 eeezzzeee: using the blue line there it just doesnt play well
01:50 Slick: blue line?
01:51 Slick: that the slider ends on blue tick?
01:51 eeezzzeee: the 1/4
01:51 Slick: plays fine
01:51 eeezzzeee: yes you can just shorten those to the white
01:51 Slick: you should know you gotta be fairly skilled to play this properly
01:51 eeezzzeee: uh? i did play this if you are wondering
01:51 Slick: quite hard to read
01:51 Slick: horobot said something like that
01:52 Slick: 01:58:404 (1) - i might make this end on white tick
01:52 eeezzzeee: alright
01:52 eeezzzeee: third thing to address
01:52 eeezzzeee: this one is more specific
01:52 eeezzzeee: the beginning SV is too fast
01:53 eeezzzeee: 00:02:449 - 00:09:864 -
01:53 eeezzzeee: this one is easy to fix i guess
01:53 Slick: i tried so long ago
01:53 Slick: didn't feel well, probably because i'm so used to them being fast
01:53 Slick: anyway
01:53 Slick: i've been told all this before
01:54 Slick: and what you pointed out are mere subjective things
01:54 eeezzzeee: dude idk man
01:54 Slick: well the sv isn't
01:54 eeezzzeee: maybe if so many people are telling you the same thing
01:54 eeezzzeee: on to the next point?
01:54 Slick: i doubt many would map it the way i did
01:54 Slick: so ofc many are going to disagree
01:55 eeezzzeee: really the gameplay is questionable
01:55 eeezzzeee: im not talking from a mapping beauty pov
01:57 Slick: vocal mapping?
01:57 Slick: it
01:57 Slick: it's very different
01:57 Slick: but it's very inteded of me
01:57 Slick: i don't wanna make a map that no one gives a second thought
01:57 Slick: just gets ed along as another generic standard map no one gives a shit about
01:57 Slick: =D
01:58 eeezzzeee: you know i love that train of thought
01:58 eeezzzeee: i really like when mappers actually try to map songs rather than circles + bgm
01:58 Slick: bgm?
01:58 eeezzzeee: but i think there can be a way to make it both musical and smooth play
01:58 eeezzzeee: background music
01:58 eeezzzeee: lol
01:59 eeezzzeee: i hate those generic jump maps
01:59 Slick:
http://puu.sh/joFzU.png
02:00 eeezzzeee: aha
02:00 eeezzzeee: but i doubt the qat will be as nice
02:00 Slick: i think it's right what he said
02:00 Slick: you gotta be skilled to play this properly
02:00 Slick: yeah qat
02:00 Slick: i talked to some them
02:00 Slick: about my wobble sliders
02:00 eeezzzeee: the only part i actually had difficulty with was the wub
02:00 Slick: and sv changes
02:00 Slick: both are fine
02:01 eeezzzeee: because i couldnt read it properly lol
02:01 Slick: yeah
02:01 Slick: midge maps really fuckin hard xD
02:01 Slick: that diff spike
02:01 eeezzzeee: tbh the slider and jumps are not very HARD
02:01 eeezzzeee: but im saying they are CONFUSING
02:01 Slick: it's 178 bpm
02:01 Slick: the jumps?
02:01 eeezzzeee: no i mean the sliders
02:02 Slick: the sliders are?
02:02 Slick: what sliders
02:02 eeezzzeee: the inconsistant sv
02:02 eeezzzeee: and 1/4 rhythm
02:03 eeezzzeee: i should say something about the visual of the map too
02:03 Slick: need some like that
02:03 Slick: what sliders were too fast or slow?
02:03 eeezzzeee: if you make every slider fancy looking
02:03 eeezzzeee: then none of them are special am i right
02:03 eeezzzeee: lol
02:03 Slick: haha yeah
02:04 Slick: but if you compare my sliders
02:04 Slick: to other map's sliders
02:04 Slick: then?
02:04 eeezzzeee: i mean i think it would be more effective
02:04 eeezzzeee: if you used the fancy sliders to emphasize certain parts of the song
02:04 eeezzzeee: rather than just all of them are fancy
02:05 Slick: i get what you mean
02:05 Slick: they are more prominent if you use fewer
02:06 eeezzzeee: yeah!
02:06 Slick: but you said sv was inconsistent
02:06 Slick: i haven't gotten much about that
02:06 Slick: i told one modder
02:06 eeezzzeee: oh right
02:06 Slick: to go deep into the slider velocity
02:06 Slick: when he is going to mod it
02:06 Slick: to even things out
02:06 Slick: but would be good if you pointed out a few
02:07 eeezzzeee: ok lets look at the first kiai time section
02:07 eeezzzeee: most of the sliders are around 1.2 so why not just make all of them 1.2?
02:08 Slick: i almost pointless
02:08 Slick: but i don't see the problem
02:08 eeezzzeee: like instead of 1.22, 1.25, etc
02:08 Slick: the sv flows around 0.7 - 0.1 outside kiai
02:08 Slick: inside kiai 1.0 - 1.3
02:08 Slick: but point out the ones that were too fast
02:08 Slick: or slow
02:08 Slick: the ones which came unexpected
02:09 Slick: players is really important
02:09 eeezzzeee: why not even them all to be 1.2 i mean
02:09 eeezzzeee: im sure i missed some slider ends because of slight change in sv
02:09 eeezzzeee: and thats annoying
02:09 Slick: vocals have different intensity
02:09 Slick: tried to make sv according to that :s
02:09 Slick: but i haven't had much compalints about it
02:10 Slick: only by modders actually
02:10 Slick: no player has mentioned the slider velocity xD
02:10 eeezzzeee: LOL
02:10 eeezzzeee: well i actually barely looked at it in the editor
02:10 eeezzzeee: played and now mod
02:10 Slick: wait
02:10 Slick: there was one who mentioned it
02:10 Slick: 01:25:707 - here
02:11 Slick: that i should even out the SV there more
02:11 Slick: and 02:28:741 -
02:11 eeezzzeee: hmmm
02:11 eeezzzeee: yeah i can see stuff like this 01:28:572 (1,1) - being a problem
02:11 Slick: but some examples now please
02:12 Slick: in kiai
02:12 Slick: 01:28:572 (1) - i know this, considered making it slower
02:12 Slick: to 0,85 instead
02:12 Slick: but back to kiai
02:13 eeezzzeee: hmm
02:13 eeezzzeee: i dont know some parts are just really fast
02:13 eeezzzeee: like 01:12:561 (1) -
02:13 eeezzzeee: or the other long sliders
02:13 eeezzzeee: very fast and long
02:13 Slick: 01:12:561 (1) - it's 1.10
02:14 Slick: it's difficult to follow
02:15 Slick: hopefully sv will be better once i recieve that mod
02:15 Slick: from the guy i request to prioratize the SV
02:16 Slick: prioritize*
02:16 eeezzzeee: somehow it feels weird to play but i cant put why
02:17 eeezzzeee: lol
02:17 Slick: it doesn't flow to well because of the slider before
02:17 Slick: and it has a difficult curve
02:17 Slick: but it's fucking diffiuclt to make massive sliders flow well...
02:17 Slick: best i can get really right now
02:22 eeezzzeee: i have 2 more points btw lol
02:22 eeezzzeee: whenever you want to move on
02:22 Slick: ?
02:22 Slick: go on
02:23 eeezzzeee: spacing is too large in general
02:23 eeezzzeee: what i mean by this is that
02:23 Slick: difficulty is forced idd
02:23 eeezzzeee: every single note has a large spacing
02:23 eeezzzeee: no not so much the difficulty is forced
02:23 eeezzzeee: rather the spacing is just very large on every note
02:23 Slick: in kiai?
02:24 Slick: the bpm is 178
02:24 Slick: gotta have large spacing for difficulty
02:24 eeezzzeee: its not jumps anymore when they are all that space apart though you know?
02:24 eeezzzeee: you can have some closer and some even further than it is right now
02:24 Slick: oh
02:24 eeezzzeee: to have a more interesting gameplay
02:24 eeezzzeee: again emphasize certain parts
02:24 Slick: emphasize vocal
02:25 Slick: i've tried doing that, keep flow linear when vocal is off with circles
02:25 Slick: when vocal kicks in = shift in flow + higher spacing
02:25 Slick: should i increase the spacing of vocal?
02:25 eeezzzeee: mmmm
02:25 eeezzzeee: ok lets have a specific example
02:25 Slick: and reduce it when it's off?
02:25 eeezzzeee: like 01:01:774 (1,2,3,4,5,1) -
02:25 Slick: 01:09:190 (3,4,5,6,1) -
02:26 eeezzzeee: uh ok lemme look at the one you showed
02:26 Slick: 01:02:280 (2) - higher spacing?
02:26 eeezzzeee: the one you showed is ok
02:26 eeezzzeee: to the one i show
02:26 eeezzzeee: its all the same space right?
02:26 eeezzzeee: more space between 01:02:280 (2,3) -
02:26 Slick: 01:02:280 (2) - has slightly higher spacing
02:27 Slick: than 01:02:448 (3,4,5,1) -
02:27 Slick: should i make the jump of 01:02:280 (2) - bigger?
02:27 Slick: does fit the start of kiai
02:27 eeezzzeee: hmmm
02:27 eeezzzeee: if anything the space between 1,2 should be smaller
02:27 eeezzzeee: and then 2,3 should be bigger
02:28 eeezzzeee: because 3 is the new vocal right?
02:28 Slick: yeah
02:28 Slick: but it's difficult to pattern
02:29 Slick: maybe i can swap the places of these 2 01:02:786 (4,5) -
02:29 Slick: xDD
02:29 eeezzzeee: mhm thats why it would have been problematic if i wrote this out on the forum lol
02:30 eeezzzeee: also 01:02:954 (5,1) - i think slider on 01:02:280 - would be better? i think that is the vocal
02:31 Slick: no lol
02:31 Slick: the first half of kiai doesn't follow vocal fully
02:31 Slick: if i did would just be marathon of big ass sliders
02:31 Slick: how boring isn't that
02:31 Slick: second half vocal changes more often so i can fully follow it
02:32 Slick: but i will try to apply that which you said
02:32 Slick: about the intensity
02:32 Slick: reduce spacing when vocal is off
02:32 Slick: increase when it starts
02:32 Slick: lets look at this 01:09:190 (3,4,5,6,1) -
02:32 eeezzzeee: did you try swapping those anyway? i think the 3 circles after would work better anyway
02:32 Slick: 01:09:359 (4) - has even spacing (1,30)
02:33 eeezzzeee: (talking about the previous one lol)
02:33 Slick: at 01:09:527 (5) - vocal starts so (6) is further away 1,50
02:33 Slick: yeah i know
02:33 Slick: i might try that
02:33 Slick: see how it flows
02:33 Slick: but look at my example
02:34 Slick: so i could make 01:09:190 (3,4,5) - spacing 1,20 instead
02:34 Slick: and 01:09:696 (6) - 1,60
02:34 Slick: seems pretty good actually
02:34 eeezzzeee: more difference in the spacing?
02:34 Slick: it was you who suggested that lol
02:34 eeezzzeee: yeah its not very noticable that 6 is further
02:35 eeezzzeee: atm
02:35 Slick: yep
02:35 Slick: should make it bigger
02:35 Slick: and 3,4,5 little smaller
02:35 eeezzzeee: or you can even make like 3,4 = small 4,5 = mid 5,6 = large
02:35 Slick: i'll try
02:35 eeezzzeee: leave the details up to you
02:36 eeezzzeee: i just want to say the general stuff
02:36 Slick: you said you had 2 more points
02:36 Slick: what's the second?
02:36 Slick: last*
02:36 eeezzzeee: oh yeah
02:36 eeezzzeee: this one is simple
02:36 eeezzzeee: just lower the ar to like 9.2 - 9.4
02:37 eeezzzeee: i think would be more fitting for 178 bpm
02:37 Slick: fort said something about the dubstep being too difficult to read with lower ar
02:37 Slick: do you know anyone i can ask for help with ar?
02:37 eeezzzeee: really its just hard to play in general... idk if ar is the problem
02:38 eeezzzeee: but on the other hand the non dub parts
02:38 eeezzzeee: would benefit from like 9.4
02:38 Slick: being able to change the AR in the map
02:38 Slick: would be good for this
02:38 Slick: it has been suggested as a feature
02:39 Slick: but yeah, doesn't make much sense, would be abused
02:39 eeezzzeee: 02:58:572 (7,1) - wao this is 1/8 spacing
02:39 Slick: flows good
02:39 Slick: 5eania is a godlike mapper, he knows what he's doing xD
02:41 eeezzzeee: yeah its not ar problem with this
02:41 eeezzzeee: its just SV is hard to read
02:41 eeezzzeee: probably a lot of people will think 1/4 is 1/2
02:42 Slick: my mapping lacks vartiety
02:42 Slick: 5eania's & midge's contibution adds more of it
02:42 Slick: more creativity and complicated patterns
02:43 eeezzzeee: hmm
02:43 eeezzzeee: tell him to consider changing this though
02:43 eeezzzeee: 03:00:426 (1,2,3,4) -
02:43 eeezzzeee: VS 03:11:213 (1,2,3,4) -
02:43 Slick: lol
02:43 eeezzzeee: like same music
02:43 eeezzzeee: one of them has retarded SV
02:43 eeezzzeee: the other one is fun and playable
02:43 Slick: so what's the difference between the two outside slider velocity?
02:44 Slick: first one gives quite a strong hint
02:44 eeezzzeee: they sound the same and play so differently
02:44 Slick: the first one has slider shapes
02:45 Slick: and different lenghts
02:45 eeezzzeee: i mean he can make both of them using the different SVs
02:45 eeezzzeee: not saying different SVs is bad
02:45 Slick: a faster SV makes sense
02:45 eeezzzeee: just saying why they are different when the music is the same
02:45 Slick: adds variety
02:45 Slick: might as well copy paste previous kiai for second kiai then
02:45 eeezzzeee: though honestly i prefer the normal one
02:46 Slick: midge does the same
02:46 eeezzzeee: you can make variety without making vastly different gameplay...
02:46 Slick: 04:15:932 (1,1,1,1) - vs 04:26:718 (1,1,1,1) -
02:46 eeezzzeee: doesnt have to be the same exact placement
02:46 Slick: you're right though
02:47 eeezzzeee: those are the same though they just get longer
02:47 Slick: cause i talked to qat about it
02:47 eeezzzeee: xD
02:47 Slick: and they said the map was fine
02:47 Slick: only problem was dubstep
02:47 Slick: especially the second one
02:47 eeezzzeee: yeah i failed on the second one lol
02:47 Slick: mainly cause of the massive diff spike
02:48 Slick: yeah second one is crazy
02:48 Slick: my fault though
02:48 Slick: cause i asked him to buff it
02:48 Slick: but it may have been too big
02:48 Slick: >_<
02:49 eeezzzeee: oh man
02:49 eeezzzeee: that circle stream though
02:49 Slick: haha
02:49 Slick: qat liked it
02:50 eeezzzeee: really?
02:50 eeezzzeee: im thinking that will probably cause problems
02:51 eeezzzeee: i handsome had a neu map
02:51 Slick: qat probably have different opinions
02:51 Slick: but the guy i talked said it fit well
02:51 eeezzzeee: and it was dq for shit like that
02:51 Slick: yeah
02:51 Slick: guess we'll find out if it gets ranked
02:51 Slick: qualified*
02:51 eeezzzeee: it would be so much easier if it wasnt a circle...
02:51 eeezzzeee: lol
02:52 eeezzzeee: alright anyways
02:53 eeezzzeee: do consider what i said about the fancy sliders and varied jump spacing
02:53 Slick: won't change the fancy sliders
02:53 eeezzzeee: i see some people say this map is unpolished lol
02:53 Slick: most was pointless shit i've been told before
02:53 eeezzzeee: like those are the stuff that would cause people think that
02:53 Slick: only thing that helped was the spacing thnig
02:53 Slick: thing*
02:54 Slick: but it is going to be good once i apply
02:54 Slick: nice suggestion
02:54 eeezzzeee: heh alright man
02:54 eeezzzeee: good luck!
02:54 Slick: thank you
02:54 Slick: did you post it?
02:54 eeezzzeee: ill do that later
02:54 Slick: oh thanks
02:54 Slick: because
02:55 Slick: i don't mind it that much, but if possible could you delete my trashtalking of darcols mod
02:55 eeezzzeee: oh sure
02:55 Slick: thank you
02:55 Slick: have a good one dude
02:55 eeezzzeee: idk if anyone reads these though
02:55 eeezzzeee: just in case lol
02:55 eeezzzeee: you too
02:56 eeezzzeee: o/
02:56 Slick: 0/