good

Very glad to see the official stance given on this, full !

Good

this is epic

hypothetical

Well said.

personally, i dont really have any objection with mapping commisions since mapping is something like a free place. you can do whatever you want and rank it as long as it adhere the ranking criteria. but not with team helping to rank something in order to earn money. but isnt it just limiting people doing something.

im just sure that people wont abuse the mapping commisions and bn/qat power. atleast it wont be a big issue where it'll become really popular issue among mapping community.

actually no one knows what will happen so im just shrugging here~

Thank you! nice

not bad

good stuff

yes

Thank you

we have decided that all of any osu! team involved in the ranking process (e.g. Beatmap Nominators, Quality Assurance Team, etc) will be explicitly forbidden from undertaking or participating in paid modding, ranking OR beatmapping commissions while they retain their role on the team.

To clarify this means the qat/bng cannot mod, rank, or map if theyre paid to do it, but they can mod/rank something that someone paid for correct.

i.e. a non bng/qat mapper makes a commissioned set. this set can still be pushed to ranked correct?

if so whats to stop people from just quitting qat/bng and doing the same thing?

edit: to clarify im all for this change im just not sure its fully addressing the problem/i might be misunderstanding.

yea i agree that this rule should extend to everyone; even if its not directly enforceable for everyone, at least through some indirect reporting system similar to cheating

Sparhten wrote: 1ek6g

if so whats to stop people from just quitting qat/bng and doing the same thing?

Nothing. And completely banning it is not our goal here. See the second half of the original post which attempts to make this distinction.

[deleted as part of purging my old post history]

osu!team wrote: 18396

So it comes down to this: we ask that all individuals who undertake commissioned work to do so tastefully, with utmost respect given to the license/rights-holders of any works involved in the creation of a beatmap - this includes obtaining proper licensing/clearance for all media/art/etc involved.

Just to clarify, isn't this pmuch the same wording as current regulation regarding 's submission in ToS?

oh finally, it's here, thank god...

yey

thank you.

4n3c wrote: 5k2b1v

feel like this should be linked here for future reference even though it's already public
bn/qat member report form

Well, finally we have a word about this very important topic. Thanks a bunch for taking an action to this!

First i was like "let people do what they want" but thanks to this post I understand the decision and I believe it's by far the best one ! nice job

How are you planning to enforce the rule?
Say someone is mapping a song and pretends that he mapped it because he liked it; while in reality being commissionned to map it, how can you prove that he was getting paid to map this song?

Conversely, if someone reports a team member for doing commissions while in reality he was not, how can he (the team member in question) prove his innocence?

In other words, how can you be sure that someone is or isn't doing commissions?

Does "properly licensed content" only cover audio tracks, or does it also cover the backgrounds and hitsound samples?

Kracy wrote: 2p4x2v

That's really good move. Cool to see osu staff reacting fast to that kind of issues

"reacting fast"

mapping commissions have been around since before i ed 5 years ago, this isn't fast

Thank you

peppy wrote: 73101g

Sparhten wrote: 1ek6g

if so whats to stop people from just quitting qat/bng and doing the same thing?

Nothing. And completely banning it is not our goal here. See the second half of the original post which attempts to make this distinction.

mmm my concern about that was is that if there's nothing enforcing it other then it damages the reputation/future of the game people might not care/do it anyway because of selfish reasoning. But only time will tell. overall good change in the right direction at the least.

Thank you, osu! team! This exploitation was handled in the most fit way possible if you ask me.

(a). "... Beatmap Nominators, Quality Assurance Team, etc) will be explicitly forbidden from undertaking or participating in paid modding, ranking OR beatmapping commissions ..."

- That means any member of osu! team can't get paid to mapping/modding/ranking, which indicates:
(1) A map can still get ranked if it's a commissioned map made by people who isn't a member of the osu! team, so long as any BN/QAT... who have modded/nominated it didn't get paid, and
(2)

peppy wrote: 73101g

Sparhten wrote:
if so whats to stop people from just quitting qat/bng and doing the same thing?

> Nothing. And completely banning it is not our goal here. See the second half of the original post which attempts to make this distinction.

(b). "... we ask that all individuals who undertake commissioned work to do so tastefully, with utmost respect given to the license/rights-holders of any works involved in the creation of a beatmap - this includes obtaining proper licensing/clearance for all media/art/etc involved. "

That doesn't mean: "If a commissioned map doesn't have any permission from artists who have participated in making the song, then it would be strongly prohibited;"
It means: "We're still living in the grey area, please obey that simple convention, osu! players, PLEASE!"

BluGalaxian wrote: 1iz1s

Thank you, osu! team! This exploitation was handled in the most fit way possible if you ask me.

Nice. Because a lot of people forget that making money on something that the mapper doesnt own any licence could have bad consequences to the game and the mapper itself...

nice

Rip Sotarks lol

🍿

Nice :3c

i guess now everythings how it used to be 2 months b4
ill take it

At least this is something, which I'm glad about. However, I'd rather see a more concrete stance instead of a plea not to commission songs... because we all know how well asking people not to do things goes.

Unecessary

You don't even know how happy I am to see this banned

Very happy with this. Thanks for speaking out and thanks for all your hard work!

Well i follow what youwwant to do

poggers.

This means BNs can no longer get their maps ranked while they are still a BN ?

thank you osu staff, very cool!

How will this be enforced in more vague cases? For example a member of the BNG or QAT can just set a donation goal on stream, and then when he reaches the goal he will make a map from a song that will be chosen from a poll that is voted on by followers. Does this still count as doing a commission as it is technically not done directly and would be unknown without proper context?

Totally needed

Bless

there is zero way to know if a mapset is a commission tho, mapper just have to not tell and nobody will know

Wait what? People actually took money to map something? Really makes you look different at those persons. Mapping is supposed to be for the fun part, and not for money or fame. I seriously can't believe it and am truly shocked. So this is what the mapping community has come to? Thats what happens when people get drunk on their fame.

Linada wrote: 5f2a3p

there is zero way to know if a mapset is a commission tho, mapper just have to not tell and nobody will know

No but the can't publicly their commissions thus will be getting a lot less requests

Come[Back]Home wrote: 5h105y

Wait what? People actually took money to map something? ......

Very welcomed change. Definitely a step into the right direction.

See ya Sotarks. Good change

N I C E

I can mostly agree with that since people shouldn't take money for maps they are making, osu! is free tool to use and people can't just take money for using it in abusive way for pp farming etc.

Using free tools/resources to earn money isn't always legal

[deleted]

woahsia wrote: 4k4x19

How will this be enforced in more vague cases? For example a member of the BNG or QAT can just set a donation goal on stream, and then when he reaches the goal he will make a map from a song that will be chosen from a poll that is voted on by followers. Does this still count as doing a commission as it is technically not done directly and would be unknown without proper context?

No not really, that's more of a public fundraising project rather than a private commission, since it involves the community interacting with the stream and people are more or less donating for stream entertainment

WOOOOOO YEAH

Princess Kisses wrote: 5141j

Linada wrote: 5f2a3p

there is zero way to know if a mapset is a commission tho, mapper just have to not tell and nobody will know

No but the can't publicly their commissions thus will be getting a lot less requests

i believe that one person affected by this doesnt need more exposure at the time being, and can just continue doing this just free

Nice, I hope as many people as possible don't make maps for money...

I also think the uncertainty of wether or not a map is commissioned should be addressed.

Other than that awesome change! Hope this gets extended to more of the community in the future

About time, nice!

I think this was a very responsible way to handle this situation. wp

squirrelpascals wrote: 6f381c

I also think the uncertainty of wether or not a map is commissioned should be addressed.

Other than that awesome change! Hope this gets extended to more of the community in the future

An obligation to say (in map desc or something) if the map was a commission or not would be nice. Lying about that kind of thing now has serious consequences and ahould have a harsh penalty.

Come[Back]Home wrote: 5h105y

Wait what? People actually took money to map something? Really makes you look different at those persons. Mapping is supposed to be for the fun part, and not for money or fame. I seriously can't believe it and am truly shocked. So this is what the mapping community has come to? Thats what happens when people get drunk on their fame.

While I agree with the ruling, I can't help but be bothered by posts like this. Taking money for doing something you are good at and enjoy is not only normal, it is something practically every content creator does. It's not just people who draw art, all kinds of content creators take money for the work and effort they put into a piece of content in some form or other, be it through Patreon, Youtube ads, Twitch subs, or anything else.

What really impresses me about the ruling is that it does not outright ban commissions, it bans making money off of the backs of others' works. This is good, because this is how it works in most places as well. Unless you fall under Fair Use you need the artist's permission in some form or other in order to make money off of their work.

My point is, while I'm sure there's very shady things to take commission for, saying "Mapping is supposed to be for the fun part, and not for money or fame." is horribly lopsided considering the amount of effort some mappers put into their maps. If someone is willing to pay them for it, and they don't abuse either the system or other artist's work in the process, there is nothing wrong with them accepting that payment.

One good use case I could see for this would be an up and coming artist paying a very popular mapper to map their song so it could gain attention. This is a form of ment and would be perfectly fair imo.

And don't forget that while this is a free game, osu!er is practically the same as Patreon. Mappers are content creators for osu just like programmers are, so I don't see why one form is appalling while the other isn't.

Just my 2c.

This won't stop the ranking mafia at all, but a first step (at least to try to) like this is always welcome.

nice

Thank you so, so much for this.

nice

lmao

why

I like it how this was involved with some intentionally repeating this sort of acceptance as well for those who were involved with this are now ing this thread. X)

osu!team wrote: 18396

To this end, we have decided that all of any osu! team involved in the ranking process (e.g. Beatmap Nominators, Quality Assurance Team, etc) will be explicitly forbidden from undertaking or participating in paid modding, ranking OR beatmapping commissions while they retain their role on the team.

Is this confirmation that BN's/QAT's are part of the osu! team? Because for the longest time they have simply been seen as regular community with some privileges.

[]

Anyways, an official stance is good. I'm not against it, but I do have some issues that hopefully we can resolve.

osu!team wrote: 18396

So it comes down to this: we ask that all individuals who undertake commissioned work to do so tastefully, with utmost respect given to the license/rights-holders of any works involved in the creation of a beatmap - this includes obtaining proper licensing/clearance for all media/art/etc involved.

Are there any differences between this rule and regular map submission rules? Just asking because you guys are specifically talking about commissions now.

Community Rules wrote: 2b6g3u

1. Make sure you have permission to use any content involved in your beatmap. This includes songs, videos, hit sounds, graphics, and any other content that isn't your own creation. If you are unsure of where to find content that is free to use, we have a growing library of tracks available at the Featured Artist listing, all 100% licensed for use in osu!.

Main reason I'm asking is because this rule basically says that as a rule we should have permission to use content involved.

So here's my question with all things considered. Will the osu!team be taking any measures to enforce this rule? That is to say, will you actively check to make sure that s submitting content are doing so with respect to proper licensing? Should we as mappers have to provide proof that we have the licenses to various songs we ?

Because it's exceedingly obvious we don't. It's true, you can say "you didn't know any better" and does protect osu! from being responsible for its s ing unlicensed content.

But some issues arise.

1. If music companies decide to pursue legal consequences for osu! distributing their music without consent, mappers seem to bear the consequences. That is to say, the osu!team will simply say "We assumed that the mapper had the rigts to the song. Since it's clear they don't, they should be the ones you guys should sue, not us."

2. Similarly, if music companies decide to pursue legal consequences for osu! distributing their music without consent, they could also argue that does not protect osu! from the spirit of the rule. This is the argument of negligence. It's exceedingly clear that 99% of osu content is not licensed. It is also exceedingly clear to my knowledge, that the osu! moderation team does not actively try to remove content that is unlicensed (aside from anime episodes, lol). So will the moderation team going forward, now moderate beatmap submission to ensure content is properly licensed material? Or dos the osu!team have an answer to this potential argument of negligence?

3. If music companies decide to pursue legal consequences for osu! distributing their music without consent, and offering express s for those willing to pay (er), would mappers be obligated to pay for damages? For example, the profit osu! makes from priority is a deficit to music companies/producers/artists etc... who make money by getting people to pay for their songs. Also, ing of unlicensed content on the part of the mapper also contributes to this issue. By allowing the mp3 to be ed free, this is another loss of income for artists who charge money for their songs to be ed.



Personally, I will cease all mapping commissions officially. But my concerns are now less about commissions and more about simply ing maps in general. I'm not trying to shade the osu!team, I really think these are legitimate issues we need to consider now more than ever. I've even heard Larto quit osu because he feared legal ramifications due to mapping popular songs.

Cool nice!

Adding this:

4. Is there any protection for mappers with regards to these issues? Otherwise I think it's fair to say a lot of mappers who don't know this can happen to them will cease mapping, or may even request their content removed. Furthermore, if a mapper no longer wishes to remain responsible for the beatmap, and requests its removal, are they allowed to? Under current TOS they cannot. But if that is the case, does not the ownership of the beatmap now belong to osu? After all, you cannot blame the mapper for ing unlicensed content, and also deny the mapper the right to have that content deleted.

This is great

If my understanding of IP law in general is correct, will protect the owners of any website precisely only if they don't manually check for unlicensed material. If you start checking that then one mistake and you are taken to court, if you don't check then you just need to deal with any notices you get.

Come[Back]Home wrote: 5h105y

Wait what? People actually took money to map something? Really makes you look different at those persons. Mapping is supposed to be for the fun part, and not for money or fame. I seriously can't believe it and am truly shocked. So this is what the mapping community has come to? Thats what happens when people get drunk on their fame.

If only all people there were thinking like you, that would be a good step backward that would prevent this game from self destruction.

Monstrata wrote: 5o4w3u

Personally, I will cease all mapping commissions officially. But my concerns are now less about commissions and more about simply ing maps in general. I'm not trying to shade the osu!team, I really think these are legitimate issues we need to consider now more than ever. I've even heard Larto quit osu because he feared legal ramifications due to mapping popular songs.

Simple. You're infringing copyright thus violating the ToS, but it's not osu! stuff fault or obligation to check every your submission because they believe in your fair use of the service. In general osu! is protected by , you're kindly protected by osu! stuff by removing your s that was claimed with . In any case of huge leak in this chain you will be taking all legal implications, but keep in mind that probability meteorite will fall on your house is higher.

On the topic- I hope this will end with nicely asking people to remove any notes about commissions on their socials rather than checking legal permissions.

Sieg wrote: 6nb42

Monstrata wrote: 5o4w3u

Personally, I will cease all mapping commissions officially. But my concerns are now less about commissions and more about simply ing maps in general. I'm not trying to shade the osu!team, I really think these are legitimate issues we need to consider now more than ever. I've even heard Larto quit osu because he feared legal ramifications due to mapping popular songs.

Simple. You're infringing copyright thus violating the ToS, but it's not osu! stuff fault or obligation to check every your submission because they believe in your fair use of the service. In general osu! is protected by , you're kindly protected by osu! stuff by removing your s that was claimed with . In any case of huge leak in this chain you will be taking all legal implications, but keep in mind that probability meteorite will fall on your house is higher.

On the topic- I hope this will end with nicely asking people to remove any notes about commissions on their socials rather than checking legal permissions.

Yes, but according to the limitations:

17 U.S. Code § 512 - Limitations on liability relating to material online wrote: 661du

(c) Information Residing on Systems or Networks At Direction of s.—
(1)In general.—A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a of material that resides on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, if the service provider—
(A)
(i) does not have actual knowledge that the material or an activity using the material on the system or network is infringing;
(ii) in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent; or
(iii) upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material;
(B) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider has the right and ability to control such activity; and
(C) upon notification of claimed infringement as described in paragraph (3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity.

osu! is only free of blame if it is not aware of infringing activity. Otherwise, if it is aware of such infringing activity, it has an obligation to remove this material.

Basically what I'm saying is turning a blind eye is not enough because on paper, the would theoretically protect osu! But I don't think this will hold in any court of law because the issue of negligence on the part of osu! staff will inevitably become a critical issue. If 99% of the content you is unlicensed and you are not doing anything to combat this issue, despite stating that your company is against this practice, then that is negligent practice and you should be held liable since you could have taken more preventative actions.

At least, this is what I am getting. Yes, the chance of this happening is low. I don't think it's impossible though, especially since 's are legitimate and we get them from time to time.



This thread also sets a precedent. The osu!team is now clarifying its position that it is against profitting off of commissioned goods. But in doing so it appears to be turning a blind eye on maps that are not commissioned. Regular maps.

Furthermore, the only income osu! receives is from osu!er which only goes to the benefit of osu!staff. This means they are profitting off the creation of maps, as well as the efforts of BNs and QATs who push these maps for ranked. This is an issue IF BN's and QAT's are considered part of the staff, but not an issue if BN and QAT are just part of the community and regular s.

Cherry Blossom wrote: 5u433y

Come[Back]Home wrote: 5h105y

Wait what? People actually took money to map something? Really makes you look different at those persons. Mapping is supposed to be for the fun part, and not for money or fame. I seriously can't believe it and am truly shocked. So this is what the mapping community has come to? Thats what happens when people get drunk on their fame.

If only all people there were thinking like you, that would be a good step backward that would prevent this game from self destruction.

Replace "Mapping" with "Painting" or "Drawing" or "Art" in general.

I believe this is a good thing for the community now and especially in the long run. If there's any reason I think osu! wouldn't exist anymore in the next 20 years or so, it's because of it growing big enough to get into terminal legal trouble. Taking a stance on commissions is a step towards preserving the community's lifespan.

Its really funny osu! rules even bother to bring Featured Artists up lol. There is basically a staff run group called Mapper's Guild that gets first "dibs" on the music that osu! is allegedly buying, but isn't that demotivating for overall mappers not in that group to try and map that content?

And now there are badges for exclusively for that group, so if you are not in it, its better to wait til you are accepted (which may be never) to start mapping the licensed music by osu! so you can get those badges easier.
Then you can take into consideration, especially with the popularization of pishi videos that peppy subsidizes, that now handsome/pishi/nokris/NP/dsco/etc. are in the mapper's guild that every map they release is going to be favorite of the community. So what is the point in making one of your own Featured Artist map?

Their group is pretty exclusive its not like there is any attempt by them to try and encourage people still left over trying to map the Featured Artist tracks, that are similarly left over from the Mapper's guild dibs system, to get better at mapping or help push their content for ranked. Honestly nobody gives 2 fks about those people not in the group trying to map FA obviously, why do you think there would be 0 things in place to help them + exclusive rewards for mapper's guild to just be busy with their work instead of helping anyone else? Epic.

But yeah guys lets use the "licensed" music from random japanese anime's and hope those guys who made it can't read our english website enough to us and then have a super hypocritical system in place for Featured Artist so no mappers actually want to touch the Featured Artist music.

(not to mention the ranked maps of Featured artist and just the regular ed music from the groups has really bad timing so people who can't fix the timing on the maps actually can't bother with the songs at all)

i agree with bor, mapper's guild is still an elitist concept that doesn't represent what you'd expect from a "community based" game and it's mapping scene even though it isn't entirely relevant to this thread WHOOPS

posted because monstrata brought up and licensed content

That's a big F to anyone who's already paid $400+ on a commission.

Princess Kisses wrote: 5141j

Linada wrote: 5f2a3p

there is zero way to know if a mapset is a commission tho, mapper just have to not tell and nobody will know

No but the can't publicly their commissions thus will be getting a lot less requests

This question still ringing on my head. How is it possible to know its for commission? Should we become spy?
(Example: there is a BN/QAT live nearby, a mapper requested to rank his/her map, then a player accidentally heard & saw their agreement. Option A: is he supossed to tail the BN/QAT & the mapper? is he gonna get paid after that?
Option B: Let them be) [ i might gone too far]

This is very good

But I'm still clueless on how will this rules going to affect those who operates the commissions. What's the parameter used to identify a commissioned mapset? There's no solid criteria on defining a commissioned maps other than leaked transaction information. If there's nothing indicating this, parties involved would still shut their mouth up and do this discreetly. This has been brought up many times but I didn't see anyone solving this.

APPEND: Also this could be misused by s to specifically attack member involved in ranking by orchestrating a fake agreement of payment and showing it to the public in order to ban a specific staff from the team. Unless there's a prevention of this, it could happen.

Narrator wrote: 5z685g

That's a big F to anyone who's already paid $400+ on a commission.

No it’s a fat L

Monstrata wrote: 5o4w3u

long post

Our of service do and always have covered this. Please take responsibility for your own actions. There are many mappers that ask before using content from others. There are many tracks we have cleared for use which aren’t necessarily listed under Featured Artists (you’d be surprised). Saying 99% of content is “unlicenced” (if you’re just looking at FA) may be correct, but I’d argue much more has been acknowledged/approved.

As we tried to make painfully obvious in the original statement, no rules have changed in of how we control your s (for now; EU rulings may change that). We can’t change rules because we work under existing obligatory laws. Do your own research and decide how you act on this online platform, plese.

bor wrote: 5s722g

Its really funny osu! rules even bother to bring Featured Artists up lol. There is basically a staff run group called Mapper's Guild that gets first "dibs" on the music that osu! is allegedly buying, but isn't that demotivating for overall mappers not in that group to try and map that content?

Mapper’s Guild was a community effort from the outset. Anyone else is welcome to or start an effort like this and we will give them where possible. There is nothing special about this group – they just started doing stuff and continued on a regular basis (see project loved, which is completely the same). This is how osu! works. Basically everything you see happen is done by the communtiy, not some internal team.

I’d argue against the concept of “dibs” because multiple beatmaps can of course be made for the same tracks. To us it’s giving FA release a bit more traction and showing people how the artist can be mapped. Generally mapper’s guild map like 20% at max of new releases and it doesn’t even happen every time.

Calling it elitist is a cop-out and a disservice to people lookinjg to try new things.

peppy wrote: 73101g

stuff

I explained what I meant right below it, and yeah its incredibly obvious that "one can make a map of that same song" but they probably won't because of what I explained prior.

also you said:

peppy wrote: 73101g

Anyone else is welcome to or start an effort like this

about ing, its strictly untrue, but this isn't the thread for that.

Sad

bor wrote: 5s722g

peppy wrote: 73101g

stuff

I explained what I meant right below it, and yeah its incredibly obvious that "one can make a map of that same song" but they probably won't because of what I explained prior.

also you said:

peppy wrote: 73101g

Anyone else is welcome to or start an effort like this

about ing, its strictly untrue, but this isn't the thread for that.

well he did say

"Anyone else is welcome to or start an effort like this and we will give them where possible."

however I'm also not very keen on dibs etc for a group of mappers, why not just promote it to everyone? unless that's already the case...

Liiraye wrote: 5g3t66

well he did say

"Anyone else is welcome to or start an effort like this and we will give them where possible." I'm talking about strictly ing the mappers guild, not everyone is welcome to it, and it is ed by staff via > giving their own channel in X discord server related to staff, badges for people in it
also its been pretty exclusive about who s from my and many other "qualified" (via the standards they listed on their first promotion post after going public, lol ed by staff before being public xd) people's experience(s)

however I'm also not very keen on dibs etc for a group of mappers, why not just promote it to everyone? unless that's already the case... dibs is in reference to the albums being released to the Mapper's guild before anyone else can see them for FA, they end up pushing maps for ranked internally(being within the guild) before any other mapper can access the FA music.

If you have a better proposal of how to have some beatmaps ready with FA releases without giving away the releases beforehand (we want to have a bit of surprise/anticipation, right?!) then please bring that up elsewhere. This thread is not for discussing how FA/other groups should work.

And if FA won't let you in why not put in the effort to make your own group? Everything starts with effort. We aren't against seeing more interesting mapping teams forming. This used to be a more commonplace thing in the past and it resulted in really creative projects.

I'm all for this. A map should be made out of creativity, not through money and stuff like that

Monstrata wrote: 5o4w3u

Furthermore, the only income osu! receives is from osu!er which only goes to the benefit of osu!staff. This means they are profitting off the creation of maps, as well as the efforts of BNs and QATs who push these maps for ranked. This is an issue IF BN's and QAT's are considered part of the staff, but not an issue if BN and QAT are just part of the community and regular s.

If I'm not wrong, I think osu!er is legally considered a donation and not a purchase, so there would be no legal issues on that part of the matter

Imagine being top 1k paying someone to map and rank farm maps with only patterns you're good at because you're that bad xDD