wow Sonnyc, to be honest I agree with you in most of your opinions.
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Current system revision and new system changes 2ym1v
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Afaik the move to this board instead of Trello was because of modding v2.Lust wrote: 6b1j1z
Of course this board will be removed when modding v2 rolls around, since there will be more of a focus on the map's threads or whatever. Plus people can just post on map threads at this point anyway
I actually agree with this.Sonnyc wrote: 491l5w
but the criteria of becoming a QAT is much more mysterious than being promoted to the previous staff BAT.
This won't be possible.Sonnyc wrote: 491l5w
Possible osu! Alumni for highly contributed BATs
^thisSonnyc wrote: 491l5w
Also it conflicts with the concept of easy assessible from mappers. If mappers need assistance from an experienced modder, the conventionally best way to ask someone is ing a colored , which we call easily assessible. Sure we've got a list of BATs here https://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/g/28 , but the need to search for a list is already something hard to assess.
do well and they'll find you, this is so obviousxxdeathx wrote: 116331
You raise some good points Sonnyc, but we don't have the slightest clue how they decide whether somebody can the staff.
Removing color would be a good step further to moddigv2 and if you not able to find out who are nominators then it most like your beatmap don't need one yet.
I wonder how will look people that are both BAs and of GMT.
1) Green nickname and BA title? Looks pretty strange with non-coloured BAs.
2) Green nickname and GMT title? How to identify that they are BAs then?
3) Non-coloured nickname and BA title? But they are strong staff and should have coloured nickname.
4) Non-coloured nickname and GMT title?
1) Green nickname and BA title? Looks pretty strange with non-coloured BAs.
2) Green nickname and GMT title? How to identify that they are BAs then?
3) Non-coloured nickname and BA title? But they are strong staff and should have coloured nickname.
Unfortunately the QAT promotion process is internal and therefore, as all other staff promotion methods, not supposed to be disclosed. We want to underline that rotating the QATs from the BATs is not an option, due to how the promotion process itself works across the entire osu!staff. Moreover, it is very difficult to keep the system reliably running, if you exchange the of the QAT in a frequent basis. Reliability is an important factor that, no offense to anyone, can not be fulfilled by many of the Beatmap Appreciators here. Anyways, any exchanged QAT comes from the Beatmap Appreciators. So whenever a new QAT is needed, potential candidates are all part of this group.
I also looked into alternative colors, but all my proposals were rejected by the game istration self. Therefore, we are looking into alternatives.
GMTs with BA powers are free to choose what title they pick, like everyone who has access to multiple titles (e.g. Alumnis and Elite Mapper). Anyways, they all default to a green forum name and the "Beatmap Appreciator" forum title.
Osu!Alumni is no option for long term BAs, because all Alumni are staff with semi-full access to all staff tools and places. Therefore the same applies here. We are also here looking for some alternative.
I also looked into alternative colors, but all my proposals were rejected by the game istration self. Therefore, we are looking into alternatives.
GMTs with BA powers are free to choose what title they pick, like everyone who has access to multiple titles (e.g. Alumnis and Elite Mapper). Anyways, they all default to a green forum name and the "Beatmap Appreciator" forum title.
Osu!Alumni is no option for long term BAs, because all Alumni are staff with semi-full access to all staff tools and places. Therefore the same applies here. We are also here looking for some alternative.
Thanks for a reply for my sloppy suggestion! :3 Glad that you are seeking for alternatives.
Still a Staff Manager getting restricted by the system was too sad T.T
Also I'd like to point out something else regarding the penalty system. Surely BATs make mistakes because they are a human, and they damage BAT score as a penalty. Something similar should be applied to QATs since they can make mistakes because they are also humans, but the current system has nothing defining about a QAT's mistake or any penalties. Some major that QATs can possibly make are the followings:
1. Disqualifying a beatmap unjustly
Assuming QATs go under an internal discussion before doing things, this case won't happen often, but just opening a possibility.
2. Beatmap being disqualified several times
This is the most noticable error that a QAT can make, and is also mentioned in the first post of this thread. True that it's also mainly the fault of BATs who failed to spot the second issue off the original DQ issue, snce this is itted as a flaw, BATs only getting the penalty felt a little unfair. p/3571581 p/3576668 p/3592246 p/3781725 Regardless of the reason for DQs, observing such a precedent isn't a positive incident for both QAT and BATs.
3. Beatmap getting ranked while having an unrankable issue
I've yet to confront this case, but nobody is responsible if such circumstance happens.
From another perspective, activity assessment is not objective. QATs should be responsible for being active considering they've got only 7 days to check maps in the qualified section, but whether they are really active is quite a questionable stuff.
I'd like to address that I respect all QAT and I've got no offense; just wanted to point out that QATs are being considered as a flawless team from the current system.
Also I'd like to point out something else regarding the penalty system. Surely BATs make mistakes because they are a human, and they damage BAT score as a penalty. Something similar should be applied to QATs since they can make mistakes because they are also humans, but the current system has nothing defining about a QAT's mistake or any penalties. Some major that QATs can possibly make are the followings:
1. Disqualifying a beatmap unjustly
Assuming QATs go under an internal discussion before doing things, this case won't happen often, but just opening a possibility.
2. Beatmap being disqualified several times
This is the most noticable error that a QAT can make, and is also mentioned in the first post of this thread. True that it's also mainly the fault of BATs who failed to spot the second issue off the original DQ issue, snce this is itted as a flaw, BATs only getting the penalty felt a little unfair. p/3571581 p/3576668 p/3592246 p/3781725 Regardless of the reason for DQs, observing such a precedent isn't a positive incident for both QAT and BATs.
3. Beatmap getting ranked while having an unrankable issue
I've yet to confront this case, but nobody is responsible if such circumstance happens.
From another perspective, activity assessment is not objective. QATs should be responsible for being active considering they've got only 7 days to check maps in the qualified section, but whether they are really active is quite a questionable stuff.
I'd like to address that I respect all QAT and I've got no offense; just wanted to point out that QATs are being considered as a flawless team from the current system.
Crap that was long...
Added into the translations post already!
Spanish
Cuando se nomina un mapa, se le da el visto bueno para que sea parte de los mapas oficiales de osu! Todo mapa requiere dos nominaciones para ser movido al estado de Calificado (la primera nominación es siempre la burbuja, la segunda nominación es siempre el corazón - aunque ambos están igualmente sopesados). Por eso, tú y tu co-nominador enviáis una solicitud de un mapa específico al staff de osu! para considerar el mapa como "mapa oficial de osu!". A esta solicitud la llamamos "estado Qualified" (o Calificado). Durante este estado, el mapa ya recibe una tabla de puntuaciones. De todas formas, el staff de osu! recibe muchas solicitudes y necesita revisar todos los mapas nominados en caso de que realmente encajen en la lista designada que se desea tener. También se debe supervisar si el mapa fue calificado apropiadamente y si el mapa fue revisado concienciadamente por la comunidad. Aquí es donde los QATs entran en juego.
El Quality Assurance Team is parte del staff de osu!, delegado a revisar las solicitudes enviadas. Miran los mapas y deciden si el mapa está listo o no. Tienen 7 días para revisar el mapa. Pasados esos 7 días sin haber ocurrido nada, el mapa estará Rankeado (¡para siempre!). En caso contrario, el mapa sería "descalificado". Esto no es más o menos que "cancelar las nominaciones y declinar la solicitud".
El QAT está básicamente moderando el sistema. No están designados para oprimir la opinión de la comunidad de mapping, sino para asegurar que todas las solicitudes enviadas son válidas y apropiadas y para que osu! siempre disponga de buen contenido para todos los jugadores (la mayoría sólamente juega mapas Rankeados). Claro que la implicación de una "descalificación" es mala, pero el QAT es libre de rechazar las solicitudes que se le envía.
Cuando hay una descalificación, un castigo es aplicado a los BATs que envían la solicitud por dicho mapa. Esto asegura que todo BAT toma responsabilidad por las nominaciones que envían. Para evitar que los BATs envíen innumerables nominaciones, hemos designado el sistema para revocar la habilidad de nominar mapas cuando muchas nominaciones inválidas hayan sido notificadas. Además, para evitar que la gente se quede en el BAT sin hacer nada, hemos implementado un sistema para revocar las habilidades cuando un BAT decida volverse inactivo. De todas formas, sólo se será degradado cuando se sea más inactivo que activo. Esto quiere decir: si alguien fue activo constantemente hace 2 años y sus nominaciones enviadas fueron de una buena calidad, es libre de volverse inactivo durante 2 meses. Lógicamente decaerá su puntuación en la calificación interna, ¡pero conservará sus habilidades y podrá reincorporarse sin demora después de tanto tiempo de inactividad!
El sistema completo está pensado para ser movido por la comunidad y además moderado. Esto quiere decir que se dejan las tareas de modear y calificar completamente en las manos de la comunidad. Debido al hecho de que cualquiera puede convertirse en BAT si se es suficientemente activo, se puede decir que este sistema está movido por la propia comunidad de mapping y modding, sin ser totalmente dependiente del staff de osu! para llevar un mapa al estado de Calificado.
De todas formas, el sistema está moderado. Esto quiere decir, como en las salas de chat, que aunque la comunidad es libre de hacer lo que le plazca, el staff está supervisando lo que ocurre. El QAT modera todo lo relacionado con la istración de Mapas e "interfiere cuando algo va mal". Si todo está bien, no ocurrirá nada y todo seguirá funcionando con normalidad.
El sistema tiene gran potencial, que no puede desarrollarse debido a las restricciones actuales que el sistema conlleva consigo. Esto ya comienza con la cuestión de "¿cómo me convierto en BAT?"
El sistema de votación es un mero filtro colocado porque el sistema está sostenido manualmente. Realmente el propio sistema está diseñado para ser aplicado en toda la base de s registrados. Esto quiere decir que se comprobaría todo existente que alcance los 1200 puntos de modeo y promocionarlo si los tiene. Pero al sostener manualmente este cálculo por el momento (que será automatizado en un futuro cercano), se necesita algún filtro para decidir "¿a quién hay que comprobar primero?".
Por eso las votaciones son sólo un filtro. Se está considerando cambiar esto (mira abajo), ya que se ha considerado que las votaciones no han estado funcionando como se esperaba. Aunque hay que implementar algo debido a la simple restricción de no ser capaz de comprobar a todo el mundo manualmente.
Además, el pago por los errores es más alto que cuando alguien se acaba de unir al BAT. Esto es algo parecido a una fase de prueba que se aplica a los que se vuelven a unir y a los que se unen por primera vez. Con esto se quiere asegurar que la gente no se quita constantemente por hacer las cosas obviamente mal y luego se vuelve a unir siguiendo haciéndolo - interfiriendo en el completo mecanismo para que funcione correctamente.
Esta cuestión se ve más como un pago por apostar la puntuación en los mapas. Se gana más al ser más exitoso con las apuestas (nominaciones), pero también se pierde algo cuando se falla aquí. De todas formas, se puede modear los mapas que se nominan para evitar apuestas ciegas. Pero hay que mantener una cierta actividad, ya que se ha implementado una disminución de la puntuación en caso de inactividad. La inactividad se castiga más severamente que el cometer errores, así que si se quiere arriesgar algo, probablemente se perderá menos que al no hacer absolutamente nada.
Por supuesto se puede decidir no preocuparse con todo este sistema - y quedarse como un normal que modea de vez en cuando. ¡Es decisión tuya escoger este desafío!
Actualmente los Criterios de Ranking sólo consisten en duras reglas y desactualizadas recomendaciones. Ya que la mayoría de las razones detrás de las recomendaciones y reglas se perdieron con el transcurso de los años, estamos planeando modernizar todas las recomendaciones para ser más explicativas y mostrar por qué existen las recomendaciones y cuáles son los casos que están "bien" y cuáles son los que no están "bien". Se intentará explicar y elaborar, cuándo juzgará el QAT manualmente y a lo que se tendrá que prestar atención. Seguramente algunas de las violaciones de las recomendaciones pueden ser vistas como "subjetivas", pero al menos se tratará de explicar con qué probabilidad esta violación de la recomendación puede causar un problema y especialmente cuándo y por qué puede convertirse en un problema. Se intentará hacerlo más fácil para que se entienda cuándo un mapa viola una recomendación y qué comprobar para asegurar que todo está bien. Para ello, se necesitan modernizar los Criterios de Ranking actuales y extenderlos - y quizá añadir en ellos las declaraciones más "obvias" para mostrar los puntos que los QAT están empezando a juzgar y consultar otros para llegar a un acuerdo si un mapa está bien o no.
Por favor, ten aquí un poco más de paciencia. Hay bastantes sitios en construcción y este gran problema necesita ser resuelto.
Honestamente, nombrar al BAT como "BAT" fue un gran error, ya que estaba implicando que el BAT es todavía lo que solía ser (staff de osu!, moderadores, gente elevada cuya opinión tenía un gran impacto, etc.) y que se ha empezado a oprimir con el establecimiento de un cargo más alto con el QAT, causando un enorme malentendido. Para evitar mayor confusión, también se ha planeado cambiar esto (mira abajo). Además, usar los términos "burbuja", "corazón" y "explotar burbuja" fueron mayormente planeados para hacer familiarizar a todo el mundo más rápidamente con el nuevo sistema. Realmente se implicó demasiado el antiguo sistema, cubriendo los cambios actuales y lo que está conectado a ellos.
Debido a las restricciones del mantenimiento manual y a la falta de un ranking apropiado y de criterios de calidad (los cuales están bajo desarrollo para mayor transparencia), todo se ha sentido arbitrario y el BAT sólo se sintió oprimido, abusado, esclavizado y desechable. Todo lo que se intenta hacer es abrir el completo proceso de calificación a la comunidad entera, dejando a todos decidir lo que debería ser nominado y lo que no. De todas formas, el BAT necesita pasar por la revisión de calidad del QAT - lo cual es extensamente desconocido - lo cual se planea cambiar ahora. Con esto se pretende que todo el mundo vea claramente el camino que deben seguir, para que nada sea visto como arbitrario o aleatorio.
Pero no se aceptan peticiones de abandono ya que se puede abusar de ellas fácilmente. Además, debido al mantenimiento manual del sistema, se incrementa la carga de trabajo extraordinariamente si se empiezan a aceptar peticiones de abandono - especialmente cuando hay más y más y más y más BATs.
¿Cómo está funcionando el nuevo sistema? 4u4q5u
Muchos de vosotros ya lo sabéis. Se está simulando el llamado modding v2. Actualmente hay dos grupos de s: el Beatmap Appreciation Team (o equipo de apreciación de mapas) y el Quality Assurance Team (o equipo para asegurar la calidad). El Beatmap Appreciation Team consiste en s privilegiados con suficiente actividad para recibir las habilidades de nominar mapas (como ya sabes: dando burbuja y calificando).Cuando se nomina un mapa, se le da el visto bueno para que sea parte de los mapas oficiales de osu! Todo mapa requiere dos nominaciones para ser movido al estado de Calificado (la primera nominación es siempre la burbuja, la segunda nominación es siempre el corazón - aunque ambos están igualmente sopesados). Por eso, tú y tu co-nominador enviáis una solicitud de un mapa específico al staff de osu! para considerar el mapa como "mapa oficial de osu!". A esta solicitud la llamamos "estado Qualified" (o Calificado). Durante este estado, el mapa ya recibe una tabla de puntuaciones. De todas formas, el staff de osu! recibe muchas solicitudes y necesita revisar todos los mapas nominados en caso de que realmente encajen en la lista designada que se desea tener. También se debe supervisar si el mapa fue calificado apropiadamente y si el mapa fue revisado concienciadamente por la comunidad. Aquí es donde los QATs entran en juego.
El Quality Assurance Team is parte del staff de osu!, delegado a revisar las solicitudes enviadas. Miran los mapas y deciden si el mapa está listo o no. Tienen 7 días para revisar el mapa. Pasados esos 7 días sin haber ocurrido nada, el mapa estará Rankeado (¡para siempre!). En caso contrario, el mapa sería "descalificado". Esto no es más o menos que "cancelar las nominaciones y declinar la solicitud".
El QAT está básicamente moderando el sistema. No están designados para oprimir la opinión de la comunidad de mapping, sino para asegurar que todas las solicitudes enviadas son válidas y apropiadas y para que osu! siempre disponga de buen contenido para todos los jugadores (la mayoría sólamente juega mapas Rankeados). Claro que la implicación de una "descalificación" es mala, pero el QAT es libre de rechazar las solicitudes que se le envía.
Cuando hay una descalificación, un castigo es aplicado a los BATs que envían la solicitud por dicho mapa. Esto asegura que todo BAT toma responsabilidad por las nominaciones que envían. Para evitar que los BATs envíen innumerables nominaciones, hemos designado el sistema para revocar la habilidad de nominar mapas cuando muchas nominaciones inválidas hayan sido notificadas. Además, para evitar que la gente se quede en el BAT sin hacer nada, hemos implementado un sistema para revocar las habilidades cuando un BAT decida volverse inactivo. De todas formas, sólo se será degradado cuando se sea más inactivo que activo. Esto quiere decir: si alguien fue activo constantemente hace 2 años y sus nominaciones enviadas fueron de una buena calidad, es libre de volverse inactivo durante 2 meses. Lógicamente decaerá su puntuación en la calificación interna, ¡pero conservará sus habilidades y podrá reincorporarse sin demora después de tanto tiempo de inactividad!
¿Por qué no se considera al Beatmap Appreciation Team como parte del staff (equipo) de osu!? 31e1w
Considerando cómo se congrega el BAT, ésto es realmente posible. Se tiene que tener en cuenta que básicamente cualquiera puede convertirse en BAT ahora. Para ser miembro del staff, y por consiguiente ser una de las personas que representan osu! en público, se necesita tener más calificaciones que sólo ser un modder activo. Todos apreciamos gratamente las contribuciones que alguien hace para la comunidad, pero hay que entender que el BAT no es parte del staff.El sistema completo está pensado para ser movido por la comunidad y además moderado. Esto quiere decir que se dejan las tareas de modear y calificar completamente en las manos de la comunidad. Debido al hecho de que cualquiera puede convertirse en BAT si se es suficientemente activo, se puede decir que este sistema está movido por la propia comunidad de mapping y modding, sin ser totalmente dependiente del staff de osu! para llevar un mapa al estado de Calificado.
De todas formas, el sistema está moderado. Esto quiere decir, como en las salas de chat, que aunque la comunidad es libre de hacer lo que le plazca, el staff está supervisando lo que ocurre. El QAT modera todo lo relacionado con la istración de Mapas e "interfiere cuando algo va mal". Si todo está bien, no ocurrirá nada y todo seguirá funcionando con normalidad.
El sistema tiene gran potencial, que no puede desarrollarse debido a las restricciones actuales que el sistema conlleva consigo. Esto ya comienza con la cuestión de "¿cómo me convierto en BAT?"
¿Y no es todo el mecanismo de los nuevos BATs favorecedor para los amigos en vez de ser movido por la comunidad? 1l6z10
Hay que itir que lo es. Habiendo planeado hacer un tipo de "pequeño filtro de calidad" con los votos, hay que itir que ha fracasado estrepitósamente, ya que la mayoría de los votos eran simplemente votos por ser demasiado bueno, favoreciendo a los amigos o votando a gente de la misma región (¡lo cual es natural! ¡es la gente que mejor se conoce!) y dando a los que no se hacían amigos de los BATs una gran desventaja comparados con los que son familiares y conocidos por los BATs.El sistema de votación es un mero filtro colocado porque el sistema está sostenido manualmente. Realmente el propio sistema está diseñado para ser aplicado en toda la base de s registrados. Esto quiere decir que se comprobaría todo existente que alcance los 1200 puntos de modeo y promocionarlo si los tiene. Pero al sostener manualmente este cálculo por el momento (que será automatizado en un futuro cercano), se necesita algún filtro para decidir "¿a quién hay que comprobar primero?".
Por eso las votaciones son sólo un filtro. Se está considerando cambiar esto (mira abajo), ya que se ha considerado que las votaciones no han estado funcionando como se esperaba. Aunque hay que implementar algo debido a la simple restricción de no ser capaz de comprobar a todo el mundo manualmente.
¿Por qué se nos echa cuando cometemos errores? Somos humanos. 482268
Claro que lo sois. Además no se echa a alguien cuando comete errores. Cualquiera que se echa es capaz de volver a unirse al BAT después de un periodo de descanso. Se puede ver más como desbloquear una habilidad en este juego. Se es libre de unir o de ir, de hacer lo que se quiera. Se paga con la puntuación de BAT por los errores y se gana puntuación de BAT por los intentos exitosos. Cuando se haya roto la barrera crítica de la puntuación, se desbloquearán las habilidades. Cuando se esté por debajo de ella, las habilidades serán bloqueadas de nuevo - pero se podrán volver a desbloquearlas cuando el periodo de descanso se haya terminado (actualmente 3 meses - bastante largo, de hecho).Además, el pago por los errores es más alto que cuando alguien se acaba de unir al BAT. Esto es algo parecido a una fase de prueba que se aplica a los que se vuelven a unir y a los que se unen por primera vez. Con esto se quiere asegurar que la gente no se quita constantemente por hacer las cosas obviamente mal y luego se vuelve a unir siguiendo haciéndolo - interfiriendo en el completo mecanismo para que funcione correctamente.
Esta cuestión se ve más como un pago por apostar la puntuación en los mapas. Se gana más al ser más exitoso con las apuestas (nominaciones), pero también se pierde algo cuando se falla aquí. De todas formas, se puede modear los mapas que se nominan para evitar apuestas ciegas. Pero hay que mantener una cierta actividad, ya que se ha implementado una disminución de la puntuación en caso de inactividad. La inactividad se castiga más severamente que el cometer errores, así que si se quiere arriesgar algo, probablemente se perderá menos que al no hacer absolutamente nada.
Por supuesto se puede decidir no preocuparse con todo este sistema - y quedarse como un normal que modea de vez en cuando. ¡Es decisión tuya escoger este desafío!
¡Pero no sabemos lo que está bien o lo que está mal! ¡Las acciones de los QAT son demasiado arbitrarias y difíciles de predecir! 6v2o26
Honestamente, se está trabajando en ello. Ya se han empezado a diseñar criterios claros y transparentes para mostrarte como miembro de este reto lo que los QAT están mirando, lo que consideran prohibido (normalmente lo mencionado en los Criterios de Ranking) y lo que dejan pasar y quizá no (y especialmente : de qué depende ésto).Actualmente los Criterios de Ranking sólo consisten en duras reglas y desactualizadas recomendaciones. Ya que la mayoría de las razones detrás de las recomendaciones y reglas se perdieron con el transcurso de los años, estamos planeando modernizar todas las recomendaciones para ser más explicativas y mostrar por qué existen las recomendaciones y cuáles son los casos que están "bien" y cuáles son los que no están "bien". Se intentará explicar y elaborar, cuándo juzgará el QAT manualmente y a lo que se tendrá que prestar atención. Seguramente algunas de las violaciones de las recomendaciones pueden ser vistas como "subjetivas", pero al menos se tratará de explicar con qué probabilidad esta violación de la recomendación puede causar un problema y especialmente cuándo y por qué puede convertirse en un problema. Se intentará hacerlo más fácil para que se entienda cuándo un mapa viola una recomendación y qué comprobar para asegurar que todo está bien. Para ello, se necesitan modernizar los Criterios de Ranking actuales y extenderlos - y quizá añadir en ellos las declaraciones más "obvias" para mostrar los puntos que los QAT están empezando a juzgar y consultar otros para llegar a un acuerdo si un mapa está bien o no.
Por favor, ten aquí un poco más de paciencia. Hay bastantes sitios en construcción y este gran problema necesita ser resuelto.
¡Pero los QATs están descalificando mapas dos veces causando mayores castigos para más gente! 5y241l
Ésto es un defecto del sistema de trabajo interno. Cuando el QAT se centra en resolver mapas en el menor tiempo posible (ya que queremos evitar descalificaciones en el último minuto), algunos de ellos han empezado a descalificar a causa de un problema en los metadatos (artista, título,...) y han dejado de chequear el mapa para buscar otros problemas. Actualmente se ha planeado tener como objetivo una descalificación que agrupe todos los problemas que se deben arreglar con la versión actual del mapa. Claro que un mapa puede ser descalificado de nuevo si la versión recalificada tiene nuevos problemas que la versión originalmente calificada no tenía. Pero también se quiere centrar a partir de ahora en evitar múltiples descalificaciones por motivos que ya estaban presentes en la versión calificada originalmente - ¡incluso en los otros modos de juego!¿De dónde vienen todos los malentendidos sobre el nuevo sistema? f667
Son frecuentemente causados por dos cosas diferentes: las restricciones actuales causadas por el mantenimiento manual y el uso de los antiguos términos para conservar el legado.Honestamente, nombrar al BAT como "BAT" fue un gran error, ya que estaba implicando que el BAT es todavía lo que solía ser (staff de osu!, moderadores, gente elevada cuya opinión tenía un gran impacto, etc.) y que se ha empezado a oprimir con el establecimiento de un cargo más alto con el QAT, causando un enorme malentendido. Para evitar mayor confusión, también se ha planeado cambiar esto (mira abajo). Además, usar los términos "burbuja", "corazón" y "explotar burbuja" fueron mayormente planeados para hacer familiarizar a todo el mundo más rápidamente con el nuevo sistema. Realmente se implicó demasiado el antiguo sistema, cubriendo los cambios actuales y lo que está conectado a ellos.
Debido a las restricciones del mantenimiento manual y a la falta de un ranking apropiado y de criterios de calidad (los cuales están bajo desarrollo para mayor transparencia), todo se ha sentido arbitrario y el BAT sólo se sintió oprimido, abusado, esclavizado y desechable. Todo lo que se intenta hacer es abrir el completo proceso de calificación a la comunidad entera, dejando a todos decidir lo que debería ser nominado y lo que no. De todas formas, el BAT necesita pasar por la revisión de calidad del QAT - lo cual es extensamente desconocido - lo cual se planea cambiar ahora. Con esto se pretende que todo el mundo vea claramente el camino que deben seguir, para que nada sea visto como arbitrario o aleatorio.
¿Por qué no me puedo retirar del Beatmap Appreciation Team? 1o5i60
Así no está diseñado el sistema. Modding v2 implica que se desbloquean las habilidades y se pierden de nuevo en caso de inactividad o no actuar con suficiente calidad. Al igual que no alguien no se puede retirar de los rankings de osu! Standard y devolver todos los "performance points" (PP), tampoco se puede retirar del BAT y devolver toda la puntuación de BAT y kudosus y empezar de cero de nuevo. Claro, alguien se puede retirar al volverse inactivo. Se es libre de dejar de nominar mapas y también de dejar de modear cuando se quiera. Se retirará a alguien del BAT automáticamente debido a la pérdida de puntuación de BAT. Claro que se avisará antes de que esto ocurra, pero será en su mayoría automáticamente y sólo una última advertencia para que la gente no se olvide y se sorprenda cuando pierdan sus habilidades repentinamente.Pero no se aceptan peticiones de abandono ya que se puede abusar de ellas fácilmente. Además, debido al mantenimiento manual del sistema, se incrementa la carga de trabajo extraordinariamente si se empiezan a aceptar peticiones de abandono - especialmente cuando hay más y más y más y más BATs.
¿Qué se planea cambiar ahora? 4z2s26
- Lo primero, para evitar toda la confusión, se quitará el nombre rojo del BAT en los foros. Seguramente parezca que se quite la recompensa de todo el esfuerzo. Desafortunadamente, el color rojo ha causado muchos malentendidos al pensar que los BATs eran del staff de osu!, los BATs se sentían oprimidos y todavía separados de la base de s. Se quita el color para reintegrar el BAT en la comunidad normal de modding y en la base de s y para hacer claro que vosotros, los BATs, sois s normales y que el completo sistema está conducido por la comunidad. Estos cambios se aplicarán unos días después de haber abierto este hilo.
- De todas formas, conservaréis un título en los foros como recompensa y distinguida diferencia dentro de los foros. Ya que el BAT no está designado como un "equipo", se quitará la "T" del nombre del grupo, renombrándose como los Beatmap Appreciators (o "apreciadores de mapas") y nombrando a todo el mundo como "Beatmap Appreciator" (o "apreciador de mapas"). ¡Esto es para distanciarse de los términos del antiguo legado y para hacer claro que los Beatmap Appreciators no son lo que el antiguo BAT solía ser! Estos cambios se aplicarán unos días después de haber abierto este hilo.
- Se espera recompensar a los Beatmap Appreciators de alguna otra forma. Un color en los foros ha sido considerado sólamente apropiado para el staff de osu! - y además confunde a los nuevos jugadores. Se pretende comunicar claramente quién es un miembro oficial de osu! y quién es un ayudante voluntario pero además un normal. Ésto es de mayor importancia, ya que se prefiere recompensar a los ayudantes con títulos de y a los del staff con colores, separándolos en colores diferentes según sus diferentes campos de trabajo. Ya que no se puede decir definitivamente qué recompensas se pueden dar, no se harán falsas promesas - ¡pero se está trabajando activamente en ello!
- Se modernizarán los Criterios de Ranking y se establecerán unos Criterios de Calidad que vendrán del QAT. Esto es para asegurar que cada Beatmap Appreciator tenga en cuenta lo que el QAT está mirando y lo que tiene que prestar especialmente atención. Necesita ser más predecible a lo que se tiene que prestar especialmente atención y lo que depende de la decisión propia. ¡Por supuesto se necesitan mantener los criterios propios altos! Por ello, sólo se pueden dar recomendaciones en diferentes "zonas grises" (que no están completamente cubiertas con las reglas/recomendaciones) para que se tenga en consideración antes de nominar cualquier mapa.
- Se añadirán artículos para todas las reglas y recomendaciones de los Criterios de Ranking y se elaborará cada regla y recomendación en detalle con "¿por qué existe esto?" y "¿por qué no funcionan otros casos?". Además se deben explicar las recomendaciones por calidad y rankeabilidad en detalle con "¿cómo funciona esta recomendación?" y "¿cuándo funciona un mapa incluso cuando una recomendación ha sido violada?". Esto es un gran proyecto y seguro que se necesitará también de vuestra ayuda para ello. ¡Toda colaboración es gratamente apreciada!
- Se cambiará de un sistema de nominaciones de BAT a solicitudes de BAT. Se pretenden abrir las solicitudes de BAT en la última semana de cada mes durante 7 días. Esto podrá resultar en una mayor cantidad de gente a chequear - y no se va a implementar un pre-filtro para este método. Pero se quitará el proceso de votaciones completamente, ya que perjudica especialmente a la gente no tan social o a la gente con barreras de lenguaje. Las solicitudes de BAT se anunciarán cuando llegue el momento y todo esté preparado. Para este mes, se considerarán por última vez las votaciones de los BATs nuevos y entonces se cambiará al sistema de solicitudes.
- Se revisarán las reglas de los BATs y se reescribirán los documentos para vosotros. Están desactualizados y las reglas son confusas. Además se quieren clarificar las reglas no escritas y que en realidad son erróneas (ej. "si el mapa es descalificado, los mismos Beatmap Appreciators no pueden recalificarlo" - ésto no es cierto. Cualquiera puede recalificar cualquier mapa. A nadie le importa. Sólo se arriesgaría la puntuación de BAT una vez más en caso de que el mapa se descalificara de nuevo - ¡eso es sólo decisión tuya!).
Added into the translations post already!
If you talk about the colour of the BAT iirc this hasn't been changed for years and people got used by it. Active modder and mapper will read this or hear about the changes. Newer s probably won't be involved that the BA was previously the BAT with a orange colour and therefore that doesn't bother them really. Of course it will be a bit unclearer to identify BAT because of the colour - like said. But that is with literally everything in this world: people need time to get used by something new.[/quote]Kurokami wrote: 3j5016
But constantly changing it will make s more confused. Don't you think making us colorless makes s think the X title can be earned by x amount of post count?
I'd wish they get their title for final.. I don't know how long it takes.Kurokami wrote: 3j5016
By the way, I don't even know who is in the CAT because of that reason. They are there and no one cares about them to be honest.
This is still valid since the group didn't changeAndrea wrote: ev47
Anyway, if you want to know which people are in the BAT group after the color change, it's quite easy, just check here.
Actually I think a lot of BA is already a lot less motivated. We are working hard to give new maps to players, sometimes this means more than 3 check for consistency (not speaking about hitsounds) and the reward is nothing. We are mod a lot, then get BA title and need to mod a lot more. This is more like a system for slaves. I wonder what will happen to the community if we all stop modding even for a month. o.o
Edit: Answering to Lust, yeah, and there will be a tons of shit map ranked because of that.
Edit: Answering to Lust, yeah, and there will be a tons of shit map ranked because of that.
Reminds me all this busy and tired shit, don't mod if you can't get fun from this. No one is forcing you.Kurokami wrote: 3j5016
We are mod a lot, then get BA title and need to mod a lot more. This is more like a system for slaves. I wonder what will happen to the community if we all stop modding even for a month. o.o
is not that everyone want, but was a kind of reward for your contribution tho, is like when you buy er you get some benefits, you know is a way to keep people motivated to continue their contribution.MMzz wrote: 2g46e
So people want to be BAT just so they could have a colored name?Kyubey wrote: 2e2u31
People now will be a lot less motivated to become a BA.
Excuse me if I sound harsh but then 'these' BA member are completely wrong here. A become to a Beatmap Appreciator to help other mapper. If you've aimed to be orange on the website and being called as "BAT" then I really would think twice what are you exactly doing here.Natsu wrote: 1f6re
is not that everyone want, but was a kind of reward for your contribution tho, is like when you buy er you get some benefits, you know is a way to keep people motivated to continue their contribution.MMzz wrote: 2g46e
So people want to be BAT just so they could have a colored name?
I am glad to be one because I could help some mapper getting their maps qualified/bubbled and to improve them. I really don't care if I get IS because I messed up something or because a map became disqualified due a different mode. It's more a nuisance for me when something becomes disqualified since it means more work for the mapper (to get again two BAs for the map) and because of THIS reason I try to avoid disqualifications. not because a score tells me not to do this.
probably some more
BAs are not supposed to be asked to mod beatmaps. They are free to pick up Beatmaps with potential or with bubbles. As well, you still can use https://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/g/28 to have a view about all Beatmap Appreciators.
@Kurokami: The System you are blaming gave every single one of you the possibility to be a BAT, which some might never have been if the old system would be still in charge. Also, it gave you the possibillity to rank as much as you want without any real requierments, where in the old System most of the new bats might have already failed ( not saying it would be like that, but the past has proven us otherwise ). It gives BA the freedom to do whatever they want, which wasn't the case back then. That doesn't sound to me like beeing a slave.
Yes, I might be not the right person to say that since I still have that 'beloved' redname, but I suppose you guys are here because you want to help either your friends, the community or yourself in having more ranked and fun maps. For that you really don't need a red name if you ask me. Yes, some points which has been mentioned might be valid one and yes, this might scratch a bit on the motivation of some people. But again: No one forces you to mod. We expect you to be here because you like to help people and have fun doing so.
Please do not understand me wrong Kurokami. Even though I the removal of the red-names from system-side, I also find it a bit questionable from.... is it said humanity-side? I don't know. But I think at this point we have to draw a line and think about what is more important to every single one of us:
Yes, I might be not the right person to say that since I still have that 'beloved' redname, but I suppose you guys are here because you want to help either your friends, the community or yourself in having more ranked and fun maps. For that you really don't need a red name if you ask me. Yes, some points which has been mentioned might be valid one and yes, this might scratch a bit on the motivation of some people. But again: No one forces you to mod. We expect you to be here because you like to help people and have fun doing so.
Please do not understand me wrong Kurokami. Even though I the removal of the red-names from system-side, I also find it a bit questionable from.... is it said humanity-side? I don't know. But I think at this point we have to draw a line and think about what is more important to every single one of us:
Having a red name or helping the community or your friends ? In this system you are free to choose, which no one of us old BATs where officially allowed to do. At least not in this dimension.
And a side note: Nothing changed except the color and name. How comes you are suddenly https://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/g/28
@Ono You misunderstood something a little. I said "slaves" because of the score system not because of the red name. Color has nothing to do with this. Getting positive amount of score for a non standard mode modder is really hard, it requires at least 10 mod and 2 icon set in each months for ~20 point. This system is also not taking real life into . Anyway, drop this.
@Stefan I can help mappers even w/o this title by just throw a mod on their map. We are not became a BA just to help peoples, we earned it with "hard" work for hours. You are a saint if you only rank maps to bring happiness only to others. Don't misunderstand me, I'm happy to be able to help, but I can do that even without this "fancy" title.
But we can say whatever we want, no one listen to us since we are just a normal s, not belongs to the beloved staff. But in reality, without us the whole system will fall apart. Anyway, drop this topic as well.
I wondered, since Loctav said they are looking into alternative rewards what can they be. Colors are obviously not, title already given, what else remained? Probably nothing except er which not really a good choice imo. So if the old BAT was worked for nothing, then we literary just here to bubble/rank/give some work to QATs.
@Stefan I can help mappers even w/o this title by just throw a mod on their map. We are not became a BA just to help peoples, we earned it with "hard" work for hours. You are a saint if you only rank maps to bring happiness only to others. Don't misunderstand me, I'm happy to be able to help, but I can do that even without this "fancy" title.
But we can say whatever we want, no one listen to us since we are just a normal s, not belongs to the beloved staff. But in reality, without us the whole system will fall apart. Anyway, drop this topic as well.
I wondered, since Loctav said they are looking into alternative rewards what can they be. Colors are obviously not, title already given, what else remained? Probably nothing except er which not really a good choice imo. So if the old BAT was worked for nothing, then we literary just here to bubble/rank/give some work to QATs.
Most of the s had already known that BATs were already has been in the position of a slave since the QAT-BAT devision happened (which QATs got everything), but it was the "RED COLOR" that made the non-staff BATs kept working and not complaining as themselves as a slave (at least publically). The name color means nothing, but it at least functioned as a strong reward.
Also the system is surely allowing BAs to mod whatever ammount they wish, but is that really something healthy to the community? There are always complains from mappers that catching BATs (BAs) is a really hard stuff, and this moddingv2beta was intended to make the beatmap ranking progress less complexed than before as long as I know. But if all BAs do only the minimum activity per month (which is conducting 4 mods and placing 3 bubble or qualify marks), will that really benefit the community, or can even supply the needs from the mappers of osu!? If one really thinks a lot for the community, then shouldn't it be right to be himself a modding slave, and provide mods for several mappers to enlarge this community for the future of osu!? Under whatever steps the BAs got selected, BAs are in a responsible position deciding whether to nominate beatmaps or not, and what the majority of BAs are claiming the so-called depressed "motivation" is actually a motivation for "responsibility" because without that, most of the BAs won't feel the wish to contribute here. Providing mods to benefit the mapping community because they like to do it and because they have fun doing it is also an important aspect, but what should go over this should be the "responsibility" that they are actually contributing this community (which the current system is highly restricting).
Also the system is surely allowing BAs to mod whatever ammount they wish, but is that really something healthy to the community? There are always complains from mappers that catching BATs (BAs) is a really hard stuff, and this moddingv2beta was intended to make the beatmap ranking progress less complexed than before as long as I know. But if all BAs do only the minimum activity per month (which is conducting 4 mods and placing 3 bubble or qualify marks), will that really benefit the community, or can even supply the needs from the mappers of osu!? If one really thinks a lot for the community, then shouldn't it be right to be himself a modding slave, and provide mods for several mappers to enlarge this community for the future of osu!? Under whatever steps the BAs got selected, BAs are in a responsible position deciding whether to nominate beatmaps or not, and what the majority of BAs are claiming the so-called depressed "motivation" is actually a motivation for "responsibility" because without that, most of the BAs won't feel the wish to contribute here. Providing mods to benefit the mapping community because they like to do it and because they have fun doing it is also an important aspect, but what should go over this should be the "responsibility" that they are actually contributing this community (which the current system is highly restricting).
You are still misunderstanding a lot. Being a BA is not super exclusive, it just requires a decent activity across 3 months. For being an active modder, you get rewarded with additional abilities you are free to use where and however you want. If you just rank and bubble stuff from people on your friend list, okay, do it. Since getting a BA is open to everyone who is willed to mod other maps, there is no mapper that can put the blame in the BA for finding no one to get their stuff ranked. Surely, you have to socialize a bit, but you are not dependant on a bunch of randomly chosen people.
If you see this BA thing as super highly exclusive and special and highly responsible, then well, I don't know why. Why is it exclusive to be in a club everyone can enter? Staying in this club is also not very difficult. Whoever says it does not consider real life still didn't understand a single thing.
Sure we appreciate your contributions, but you still take this stuff way too serious.
You want to be rewarded for getting rewards.
If you consider this entire reward (the sole ability to nominate) as reason to be rewarded, you are being misplaced here.
We may consider rewarding the ones who maintained to contribute as BA for a long time in a very good fashion. But getting the rewards solely for ing this club is contradictional and overdone.
If you see this BA thing as super highly exclusive and special and highly responsible, then well, I don't know why. Why is it exclusive to be in a club everyone can enter? Staying in this club is also not very difficult. Whoever says it does not consider real life still didn't understand a single thing.
Sure we appreciate your contributions, but you still take this stuff way too serious.
You want to be rewarded for getting rewards.
If you consider this entire reward (the sole ability to nominate) as reason to be rewarded, you are being misplaced here.
We may consider rewarding the ones who maintained to contribute as BA for a long time in a very good fashion. But getting the rewards solely for ing this club is contradictional and overdone.
Maybe the misunderstood of mine was caused from the red color as you diagnosed, and since things have changed, I'll change my attitude too.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
If you see this BA thing as super highly exclusive and special and highly responsible, then well, I don't know why. Why is it exclusive to be in a club everyone can enter?
Where you live? Because not on Earth and not in this dimension is sure. If not BA then they blame the staff (QATs especially) and this is the reality.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
there is no mapper that can put the blame in the BA for finding no one to get their stuff ranked.
If you see this BA thing as super highly exclusive and special and highly responsible, then well, I don't know why. Why is it exclusive to be in a club everyone can enter? Staying in this club is also not very difficult.It is responsible, not exclusive but responsible. QATs are only checking them, they have to do nothing if the map/mapset is good. We need to make sure at the time of nomination that the mapset is really ready. Sure, we are not staff but giving high quality maps to the community is still the responsibility of us.
Whoever says it does not consider real life still didn't understand a single thing.I can say the same to you. You have to do nothing to keep your status alive but for us (mainly non standard BAs) to remain in the "team" is very hard. Sure, its easy to say its only 2 mod and 3 icon, but when you are actually taking a look at the sets its really hard to find one which deserves icon. I can go around and mod more but that basically gives almost nothing (~30 point in the last month). Me, and I think most mode specific BA is in the same position. The modders are simply not enough to raise the quality and it takes long time to do it for us. We can suggest more modder but what, all modder already modded it and still nothing. Just tell me, how am I supposed to give icons in these situations?
Anyway, we should drop the whole conversation as it leads to nowhere. Things won't change from throwing rocks back and forth.
Worth quoting.Kurokami wrote: 3j5016
Where you live? Because not on Earth and not in this dimension is sure. If not BA then they blame the staff (QATs especially) and this is the reality.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
there is no mapper that can put the blame in the BA for finding no one to get their stuff ranked.
osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/forum/p/how_to_set_an_icon
Sure, they are free to blame you, but we all know that this isn't true. You just need to refuse to take that blame.
A single QAT is having like a exorbitantly higher work load than a single BA. You are underestimating what the QAT is doing. The actual responsibility lies on the QAT, not on you. You are only responsible for yourself and your actions - and actually only responsible for what you bubble or qualify. And if it fails, you just get a score penalty, which you can even compensate. The system is VERY forgiving compared to the past.
You have wrong illusions on how the BAT used to be when they were staff . The blaming and stress load was way higher than you have currently - and the way of promotion and maintainance was unlimited arbitrary.
You want rewards for being a Beatmap Appreciator? Reward yourself! Why do you accept 15 to 20 mod requests without taking something in return from the requesters? Do Mod 4 Mod! Push your own maps forward, in case you have some, by offering your services. Is that bad? No! Because everyone can get a BA and earn this benefits from doing such kind of offers.
Or, to train the mappers to mod more, how about you establish modding queues where the requesters must file 3 mods on other mapsets before they can request a mod to you? You make the requesters return something to the community before seeking for your mod. And if you run out of something to mod, use #modreqs.
You do not have to accept every request. You are no slaves or servants. Sure, your task is to qualify beatmaps, but while you have this task, it is a benefit over others, who can not simply do that. Why do you not simply make use of that for yourself? It is totally allowed.
Earning 30 points for month and staying in a positive value is totally fine. Why would you climb the BA-ladder if you are not even interested in doing something more for it? For those, who just want to mod less but sufficient, we do not judge anyone who is just doing the bare minimum. You stay a BA. You have the abilities. You can drain the full advantage out of them.
There are people in the top ranks of the BA who simply like to mod more. That's up to them. Why do you feel unfairly treated if those, who do more, get more points? They don't even get a cake for that right now.
You call the modders bad? Why? Everyone needs to learn. You complain about the lack of quality in the previous mods, but no one actually forces you to do in-depth mods, as well. How you shall give icons? Pop bubbles, instead, maybe? Revise the beatmap roughly before accepting the mod request?
I understand that, for example in CtB, the situation is more difficult because of the lack of actual good beatmaps and that you run out of beatmaps to icon because basically ALL are sorta bad. But this is difficult to circumvent and treat from our side, as well. Every BA can mod everything. I could suggest you to get used to another game mode, but this is also quite meh. I wish, I could offer a solution here.
We expected everyone to abuse the shit out of the new system, since it is so much tempting. And, surprisingly, it is even allowed and sorta wanted. It just saddens me that you rather cry about lacking of rewards, when you have the ACTUAL reward and massive advantage above others in the mapping community - and you simply don't exploit the hell out of it - because of weird idealism.
A single QAT is having like a exorbitantly higher work load than a single BA. You are underestimating what the QAT is doing. The actual responsibility lies on the QAT, not on you. You are only responsible for yourself and your actions - and actually only responsible for what you bubble or qualify. And if it fails, you just get a score penalty, which you can even compensate. The system is VERY forgiving compared to the past.
You have wrong illusions on how the BAT used to be when they were staff . The blaming and stress load was way higher than you have currently - and the way of promotion and maintainance was unlimited arbitrary.
You want rewards for being a Beatmap Appreciator? Reward yourself! Why do you accept 15 to 20 mod requests without taking something in return from the requesters? Do Mod 4 Mod! Push your own maps forward, in case you have some, by offering your services. Is that bad? No! Because everyone can get a BA and earn this benefits from doing such kind of offers.
Or, to train the mappers to mod more, how about you establish modding queues where the requesters must file 3 mods on other mapsets before they can request a mod to you? You make the requesters return something to the community before seeking for your mod. And if you run out of something to mod, use #modreqs.
You do not have to accept every request. You are no slaves or servants. Sure, your task is to qualify beatmaps, but while you have this task, it is a benefit over others, who can not simply do that. Why do you not simply make use of that for yourself? It is totally allowed.
Earning 30 points for month and staying in a positive value is totally fine. Why would you climb the BA-ladder if you are not even interested in doing something more for it? For those, who just want to mod less but sufficient, we do not judge anyone who is just doing the bare minimum. You stay a BA. You have the abilities. You can drain the full advantage out of them.
There are people in the top ranks of the BA who simply like to mod more. That's up to them. Why do you feel unfairly treated if those, who do more, get more points? They don't even get a cake for that right now.
You call the modders bad? Why? Everyone needs to learn. You complain about the lack of quality in the previous mods, but no one actually forces you to do in-depth mods, as well. How you shall give icons? Pop bubbles, instead, maybe? Revise the beatmap roughly before accepting the mod request?
I understand that, for example in CtB, the situation is more difficult because of the lack of actual good beatmaps and that you run out of beatmaps to icon because basically ALL are sorta bad. But this is difficult to circumvent and treat from our side, as well. Every BA can mod everything. I could suggest you to get used to another game mode, but this is also quite meh. I wish, I could offer a solution here.
We expected everyone to abuse the shit out of the new system, since it is so much tempting. And, surprisingly, it is even allowed and sorta wanted. It just saddens me that you rather cry about lacking of rewards, when you have the ACTUAL reward and massive advantage above others in the mapping community - and you simply don't exploit the hell out of it - because of weird idealism.
Posting here on behalf of CXu
This was sent like 12 hours ago, new things may be added to topic at hand.
This was sent like 12 hours ago, new things may be added to topic at hand.
CXu wrote: 344051
No, people aren't a BA/BAT because they only want a red name, but they want at least some recognition for their hard work from the community.
That recognition came from the red name; makes them incredibly easy to spot, and is a kind of proof that they are indeed
doing something good. Yes, the title is there, but you're still saying they're just "normal" s. The problem is that most
"normal" s don't contribute as much as what a lot of the current BATs are doing for the community, and just bunching them all together
feels like an insult more than anything, at least in my opinion.
The other thing is the obvious problem of actually finding BA's. They're not supposed to be asked to mod maps? I'm sorry, but you ask people if they can mod things, that's how things work. Like it or not, in almost all cases, if you don't ask, your map will not get ranked. For any new mapper, it's going to be incredibly hard to identify BA's from the crowd of all other modders, when they feel their map is ready. And having to go to Settings->groups to find the BA list is more complicated than necessary.
While having the same color as QATs is probably not a good idea, another color would help newer mappers as well as giving the BA's some recognition for what they do. If a color isn't possible, what about a bold name or something like that?
Obviously, making groups easier to find will help as well.
As for the BA rankings. I'll just say I don't really like the idea of it for various reasons.
The entire statement by CXu is resolving around trying to tell me that the BAT is not what it was in the old system.
Yes, the old BATs had a higher value, but it was also incredibly difficult to them. All I read from the statement is "I didnt realize that we did not downgrade the team. I did not notice that the original BAT was entirely disbanded and two new teams were formed. I did not understand, that the old BAT has nothing to do with the new BAT. I did not understand that the sole ability advantage is the reward from being active."
I tried my best to make you understand that you guys are too used to the old system and need to understand that we did an entire overhaul. You shall not compare yourself to the old BATs. Aaaaand, the only one who are allowed to feel downgraded are the oldBATs that shifted over to the new system. I am honest here, these are the only ones who were stripped from things. But everyone in here, who posted in this thread, was not part of that.
Yes, the old BATs had a higher value, but it was also incredibly difficult to them. All I read from the statement is "I didnt realize that we did not downgrade the team. I did not notice that the original BAT was entirely disbanded and two new teams were formed. I did not understand, that the old BAT has nothing to do with the new BAT. I did not understand that the sole ability advantage is the reward from being active."
I tried my best to make you understand that you guys are too used to the old system and need to understand that we did an entire overhaul. You shall not compare yourself to the old BATs. Aaaaand, the only one who are allowed to feel downgraded are the oldBATs that shifted over to the new system. I am honest here, these are the only ones who were stripped from things. But everyone in here, who posted in this thread, was not part of that.
Even most BAs weren't part of the demotion, it's hard to deny that the previous beta system made them "imagine" as if they were part of the old ones. How the people think is as important as what the actual facts are. In the same manner, BAs aren't "slaves" or "servants" as you revealed, but the cognition that the BAs are having doesn't likely to accord with the fact. Changing this false perception would be the key towards moddingv2, but removing the BA name color as a means for that was just stengthening that perception among BAs since the decision only approaches as taking away the last thing what the BATs had got. Well the story is just cycling again and again.
Anyways I understand the decision was prudently made after an internal discussion, and is a nice approach that normal s will have less psychological difficulty in ing BAs since BAs are now practically nothing more than a normal who can place icons. Still please do note once more that this system can truely go further when that false cognition that I've mentioned above can be removed. If the time will be the cure, let it be, but the maintenance of this system is pretty doubtful this way.
Anyways I understand the decision was prudently made after an internal discussion, and is a nice approach that normal s will have less psychological difficulty in ing BAs since BAs are now practically nothing more than a normal who can place icons. Still please do note once more that this system can truely go further when that false cognition that I've mentioned above can be removed. If the time will be the cure, let it be, but the maintenance of this system is pretty doubtful this way.
Hello,
since I've received such a question already and it might be confusing for the people who do not follow what happens in this forum actively, I decided to make this post in order to raise some attention to a possible issue.
So what i wondered about was: "Why did you name us BA?". I think it's valid to actually raise that as a question as it is really really close to the old term "BAT". I understand that you want to remove the team aspect because - really - we have not been acting nor operating nor tying to operate as a team for the past 6 months. But I still think that the term "BAT" has been stuck in too many people's heads for too long and gives off the wrong impression because it was used when starting the moddingv2 project while meaning something completely different than it may have meant back then.
Now we are called "BA" and the first question i have received some hours ago by one of my friends "What's changed from moving to BAT to BA" and i had to answer "nothing, we still do the same thing as we did for the past ~6 months after the BAT was discontinued" - "Wait weren't you BAT?" - and from that point on i had to actually explain the system changes etc.
My point is the new term is dangerously close to the old one, if you want to draw a clear line about what we are and what we aren't I think it's a nice step to remove the color to stop people from mistaking us as staff - which we clearly aren't nor are trying to be. If you were trying to draw a more clear line you, or we - i don't really care - should come up with some other name for this group in order to draw a more clear line between the mysterious new term Beatmap Appreciators and the old nonexistent Beatmap Appreciation Team in order to avoid confusion amongst the base which does not follow the activities here.
TL;DR: If you would reconsider the name choice for us, giving us a different - yet to be determined - group name, it would be easily possible to avoid confusion about the differences between BA and BAT.
I hope my reasoning here is clear enough to understand how this could become an issue, or how this already is an issue.
since I've received such a question already and it might be confusing for the people who do not follow what happens in this forum actively, I decided to make this post in order to raise some attention to a possible issue.
So what i wondered about was: "Why did you name us BA?". I think it's valid to actually raise that as a question as it is really really close to the old term "BAT". I understand that you want to remove the team aspect because - really - we have not been acting nor operating nor tying to operate as a team for the past 6 months. But I still think that the term "BAT" has been stuck in too many people's heads for too long and gives off the wrong impression because it was used when starting the moddingv2 project while meaning something completely different than it may have meant back then.
Now we are called "BA" and the first question i have received some hours ago by one of my friends "What's changed from moving to BAT to BA" and i had to answer "nothing, we still do the same thing as we did for the past ~6 months after the BAT was discontinued" - "Wait weren't you BAT?" - and from that point on i had to actually explain the system changes etc.
My point is the new term is dangerously close to the old one, if you want to draw a clear line about what we are and what we aren't I think it's a nice step to remove the color to stop people from mistaking us as staff - which we clearly aren't nor are trying to be. If you were trying to draw a more clear line you, or we - i don't really care - should come up with some other name for this group in order to draw a more clear line between the mysterious new term Beatmap Appreciators and the old nonexistent Beatmap Appreciation Team in order to avoid confusion amongst the base which does not follow the activities here.
TL;DR: If you would reconsider the name choice for us, giving us a different - yet to be determined - group name, it would be easily possible to avoid confusion about the differences between BA and BAT.
I hope my reasoning here is clear enough to understand how this could become an issue, or how this already is an issue.
Yes, this is a good point since the actual term of the group name wasn't changed except a removal of a "Team". Leaving the group name as the current way would likely to fail fulfilling the original purpose of the rename: "to move away from old legacy and to make clear, that the Beatmap Appreciators are nowhere what the old BAT used to be".Okoratu wrote: ct57
My point is the new term is dangerously close to the old one
"Beatmap Nominators" will be a good option enough considering Loctav has used the term "nomitate" on the first post and some s were ing for that name, but if there is a need for a more drastic rename, then it should be decided by the staffs instead of getting more random suggestions...
mfw everyone complains about losing just the redname.
I find the concept good itself, but I find the execution a bit harsh, even a poop coloured name would be cool to have, to make it easier to identify ourselves when looking at a beatmap thread (while the real modding v2 arrives). And I don't find the "Beatmap Appreciator" title very fitting or looking good, "Beatmap Qualifier/Nominator" would've been more fitting in this case.
Personally, I don't really care about having a red, purple, brown, rainbow coloured name, we (some) still have the same abilities as before, it is the mapper who wants their map ranked, so they should make a minimal effort to look for any of us; But again, some kind of visual distinction would be cool, for the blind people.
What makes me happy is that BAT applications are back, instead of nominations like before, you'd know why.
I find the concept good itself, but I find the execution a bit harsh, even a poop coloured name would be cool to have, to make it easier to identify ourselves when looking at a beatmap thread (while the real modding v2 arrives). And I don't find the "Beatmap Appreciator" title very fitting or looking good, "Beatmap Qualifier/Nominator" would've been more fitting in this case.
Personally, I don't really care about having a red, purple, brown, rainbow coloured name, we (some) still have the same abilities as before, it is the mapper who wants their map ranked, so they should make a minimal effort to look for any of us; But again, some kind of visual distinction would be cool, for the blind people.
What makes me happy is that BAT applications are back, instead of nominations like before, you'd know why.
"Beatmap Broker" is what a came up with considering we send maps to the qualified section which is in the middle of pending and ranked.
Maybe others can bring up a better option though,,
Maybe others can bring up a better option though,,
Static Noise Bird wrote: p5k4c
Beatmap Qualifier
Beatmap Manager
Beatmap Supervisor
Beatmap Ranking Group
Beatmap Qualification Group
Beatmap Management Group
Beatmap Supervision Group
just my two (seven) cents
Well... it is what we are tasked with doing for the most part. When I suggested Beatmap Nominator/Approver people seemed pretty for it, so I suppose it should be fine.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
Well, if you have suggestions for a better name, let me hear them. It's not the problem to change that, I guess. I am not very happy with Nominator, it sounds a bit like you are only nomination machines.
Lust wrote: 6b1j1z
Well... it is what we are tasked with doing for the most part. When I suggested Beatmap Nominator/Approver people seemed pretty for it, so I suppose it should be fine.Loctav wrote: 5b1v22
Well, if you have suggestions for a better name, let me hear them. It's not the problem to change that, I guess. I am not very happy with Nominator, it sounds a bit like you are only nomination machines.
Will Beatmap Appreciators have the option to nominate their own beatmaps?
If not, please read my proposal enclosed below:
If not, please read my proposal enclosed below:
SPOILER
I believe that BAs should be entitled to nominate their own beatmaps for ranking.
Considering this as a payment/betting system, this is the same as betting on any other beatmap, as it carries the same risk. Since the ability of BA is to nominate maps, it makes sense that they should be allowed to nominate any beatmap that they deem ready for ranking. If the map is truly ready for ranking, then the BA should not be held back from nominating it, even if it is his/her own beatmap. The way the system is designed, maps that are not ready will simply be rejected and the BA will be penalized as in any other case, so it cannot be exploited.
For example:
_______________
EDIT: That said, BAs would not be credited with BA score for modding or nominating their own maps; only negatively scored if the nomination was in poor judgement.
_______________
Additionally, I believe this would make the reward of nomination ability satisfactory for BAs, and continue to encourage mappers and modders to strive for this title.
Thank you for your time.
Considering this as a payment/betting system, this is the same as betting on any other beatmap, as it carries the same risk. Since the ability of BA is to nominate maps, it makes sense that they should be allowed to nominate any beatmap that they deem ready for ranking. If the map is truly ready for ranking, then the BA should not be held back from nominating it, even if it is his/her own beatmap. The way the system is designed, maps that are not ready will simply be rejected and the BA will be penalized as in any other case, so it cannot be exploited.
For example:
Let's say BA1 is a BA, who creates a map, and after a few mods, decides it is ready for ranking. So, he/she nominates the map, receives the nomination of another BA, and if both BAs made the correct judgement, then the map gets ranked safely. This is ideal.
Let's say BA2 is a BA, who creates a poor map, and nominates it to get it ranked as fast as possible. So, he/she nominates the map. If other BAs find that the map is not of sufficient quality, then the map will not get qualified until it is actually ready. If another BA makes a poor judgement and gives the map a second nomination, then the map will be disqualified by the QAT, and both BAs will be penalized for their poor judgement.
Now, consider the same two cases, but where the map is not created by the BA. Then the same penalties apply, and there is essentially no difference in the events. The system will take care of any attempts to exploit the privilege.
Thus, I believe there should be no distinction between one's own maps and other mappers' maps when it comes to nominations.Let's say BA2 is a BA, who creates a poor map, and nominates it to get it ranked as fast as possible. So, he/she nominates the map. If other BAs find that the map is not of sufficient quality, then the map will not get qualified until it is actually ready. If another BA makes a poor judgement and gives the map a second nomination, then the map will be disqualified by the QAT, and both BAs will be penalized for their poor judgement.
Now, consider the same two cases, but where the map is not created by the BA. Then the same penalties apply, and there is essentially no difference in the events. The system will take care of any attempts to exploit the privilege.
_______________
EDIT: That said, BAs would not be credited with BA score for modding or nominating their own maps; only negatively scored if the nomination was in poor judgement.
_______________
Additionally, I believe this would make the reward of nomination ability satisfactory for BAs, and continue to encourage mappers and modders to strive for this title.
Thank you for your time.
I've always thought that nominating one's own map was a conflict of interest but the way you put it makes a lot of sense.CloudSplash16 wrote: 30503m
Will Beatmap Appreciators have the option to nominate their own beatmaps?
If not, please read my proposal enclosed below:
SPOILERI believe that BAs should be entitled to nominate their own beatmaps for ranking.
Considering this as a payment/betting system, this is the same as betting on any other beatmap, as it carries the same risk. Since the ability of BA is to nominate maps, it makes sense that they should be allowed to nominate any beatmap that they deem ready for ranking. If the map is truly ready for ranking, then the BA should not be held back from nominating it, even if it is his/her own beatmap. The way the system is designed, maps that are not ready will simply be rejected and the BA will be penalized as in any other case, so it cannot be exploited.
For example:
Let's say BA1 is a BA, who creates a map, and after a few mods, decides it is ready for ranking. So, he/she nominates the map, receives the nomination of another BA, and if both BAs made the correct judgement, then the map gets ranked safely. This is ideal.Thus, I believe there should be no distinction between one's own maps and other mappers' maps when it comes to nominations.
Let's say BA2 is a BA, who creates a poor map, and nominates it to get it ranked as fast as possible. So, he/she nominates the map. If other BAs find that the map is not of sufficient quality, then the map will not get qualified until it is actually ready. If another BA makes a poor judgement and gives the map a second nomination, then the map will be disqualified by the QAT, and both BAs will be penalized for their poor judgement.
Now, consider the same two cases, but where the map is not created by the BA. Then the same penalties apply, and there is essentially no difference in the events. The system will take care of any attempts to exploit the privilege.
Additionally, I believe this would make the reward of nomination ability satisfactory for BAs, and continue to encourage mappers and modders to strive for this title.
Thank you for your time.
Even when I don't see the problem behind Beatmap Appreciator, if needed I'd suggest picking Beatmap Qualification Group.Sonnyc wrote: 491l5w
"Beatmap Broker" is what a came up with considering we send maps to the qualified section which is in the middle of pending and ranked.
Maybe others can bring up a better option though,,
Static Noise Bird wrote: p5k4c
Beatmap Qualifier
Beatmap Manager
Beatmap Supervisor
Beatmap Ranking Group
Beatmap Qualification Group
Beatmap Management Group
Beatmap Supervision Group
just my two (seven) cents
In that case, BA will simply be penalized for his/her poor judgement, as would be the same if he/she nominated someone else's map which was not ready. I don't see why this should be any different, considering how the new system is designed.Kurai wrote: 4o3o
Idea is that deeming a map ready for rank is a subjective matter, and in short you can't be objective when judging your own work.
looking at one's own work critically trying to improve it further before bubbling etc is barely possible
--------------
but other question do we like get a poll on this bord in order to decide on a name or will the staff just pick one and see how it goes...?
I'd be for collecting a few ideas which seem to have potential and open a poll with them or something (assuming only BA can vote in this forum)
democracy, yay
--------------
but other question do we like get a poll on this bord in order to decide on a name or will the staff just pick one and see how it goes...?
I'd be for collecting a few ideas which seem to have potential and open a poll with them or something (assuming only BA can vote in this forum)
democracy, yay
I don't see this happening either. It would contradict at some degree what the whole system is actually aiming for: A community driven modding. If I can nominate my maps, what I need you for(beside the second BA)? Beside that, it can be abused by getting attention for your own map: Not sure about some parts and don't get mods? Let's bubble it to get some attention!
This probably won't go anywhere.
This probably won't go anywhere.
yeah... ill have to agree with this. it's impossible to look at your own map objectively :X. Thats like saying you write a novel and you edit it yourself and you go publish it. lol doesn't work like that.Kurai wrote: 4o3o
CloudSplash16 wrote: 30503m
Will Beatmap Appreciators have the option to nominate their own beatmaps?
Idea is that deeming a map ready for rank is a subjective matter, and in short you can't be objective when judging your own work.
as for name.. i'd say Beatmap Qualification Group works nicely
Actually to be able to nominate your own work is not a bad idea as a reward but the penalty should be doubled if disqualification happen. That is to avoid purely made beatmaps nominated faster than they should be. Getting a two other BA in standard mode is works just fine, but when you look at other game modes, its sometimes impossible to get 2 other for example after a dq or if one (two) of them decided to quit. So I think it can be allowed with doubled penalty.
As for the name, I dunno. We never worked as a Team we probably never work as a Group either. But if something i would like to choose one of these:
The others just sounds a bit weird from Sonnyc's post.
As for the name, I dunno. We never worked as a Team we probably never work as a Group either. But if something i would like to choose one of these:
Experienced Beatmap Assistant
Beatmap Qualification Group
Beatmap Management Group
Beatmap Supervisor
Beatmap Qualification Group
Beatmap Management Group
Beatmap Supervisor
The others just sounds a bit weird from Sonnyc's post.
!report Kurai russian in #beatmapmanagement
By the way, how about taking some of those fancy titles and making a voting? I wonder if it even possible to make a voting that can be used only by BAs... Or we can just make a temporal thread where everyone will post these titles they like more, and then just count which title has more votes.
By the way, how about taking some of those fancy titles and making a voting? I wonder if it even possible to make a voting that can be used only by BAs... Or we can just make a temporal thread where everyone will post these titles they like more, and then just count which title has more votes.