I recently got an idea for Osu!Mania
For clarification: This mostly applies to autoconverts

Lately I was thinking how to properly play maps in/Mania, when there are sudden BPM changes, like LeaF - I (All diffs) it is just impossible to clear, because it goes very fast, and them BOOM, stands still, then after 100 ms orso it just flies further at insane high speed. This even makes Easies impossible in Mania, because it stops, and you can't see when it goes on.

Now I thought of a mod, which will block speed changes, so that the whole map would be playable on the same speed.
BPM changes are now impossible to see in Mania
Make it a special/diff reducing mod, with x0.67, so 2/3 of max score

Tell me your thoughts about this, and maybe help me with listing how the score should be (x0.5-x0.9)
It can also be unranked or such

Thinking about it.. it would like screw up the entire song/mapping ..
You should just get used to the taiko map of it or something.

Sure osu!standard might be easier to do these, but it sometimes it's a pain for standard osu! playing people.

This is only for Taiko and Mania, and why would it screw up? @Sunlyx

I hate speedchanges so much

Such SV.
Much hate.

heh

vahn10 wrote: 59675d

I hate speedchanges so much

baraatje123 wrote: 5t724b

This is only for Taiko and Mania, and why would it screw up? @Sunlyx

wouldnt that like, well.. because that speedchange is part of the song and how the dude mapped the song enabling a speedblock entirely screw that up ? e_e

Sunlyx wrote: 22ix

wouldnt that like, well.. because that speedchange is part of the song and how the dude mapped the song enabling a speedblock entirely screw that up ? e_e

Not really, see the C-speed StepMania as example. It totally removes the gimmicks/bumps and just uses its original BPM itself. So, it would be really plausible if this is implemented.

Did someone say Cmod ?

If so, if it ever gets implemented, it shouldn't be ranked at all. SV changes are part of the map, taking out such things equals taking them out of the chart in a separate file. Same goes for Taiko mode, where such things do not exist at all.

_Gezo_ wrote: 516q3b

Did someone say Cmod ?

If so, if it ever gets implemented, it shouldn't be ranked at all. SV changes are part of the map, taking out such things equals taking them out of the chart in a separate file. Same goes for Taiko mode, where such things do not exist at all.

Welp, that could be true, I guess.

Then make it only for Mania, because maps like LeaF - I are literally impossible in Mania, and make it x0.67 then, so 2/3 of the score
I taiko it is easy to follow, but in Mania it is not.
I'll remove it for Taiko, but keep it for Mania

Bump
This can get ranked, but with 0.66x multiplier, and some maps are, when this gets implemented, completely able, think about LeaF - I, like mentioned before

leaf - i is mapped for standard, and is an autoconvert
you're trying to get a mod made for a mode using a map made for another mode as an example

if a mania-specific map has a problem with terrible SV changes it's a problem with the ranking criteria for mania maps allowing extremely bad SV changes to get through. so there's really no reason for this mod tbh.

Well, this mod is to prevent (old) standard maps with unnecessary BPM changes from bekng unreadable, especcially sonce you can't change scroll speed ingame anymore

xelivous wrote: 2h5329

leaf - i is mapped for standard, and is an autoconvert
you're trying to get a mod made for a mode using a map made for another mode as an example

if a mania-specific map has a problem with terrible SV changes it's a problem with the ranking criteria for mania maps allowing extremely bad SV changes to get through. so there's really no reason for this mod tbh.

care to explain more why you're against ? I is an example of a song with inconstant BPM. You wouldn't say the same if the map was made for mania.

The speedblock mod should be ignores all SV/BPM changes.
For BPM change, if the beat slower then make the bar further and vice-versa.

Play Mode-specific Maps. If you can't deal with the Speed changes, don't play it. Maps like that are made for the Standard Mod, the Mappers cannot regard to the other modes because it's very hard to play.

This mod is, like I meant to say, almost only for converted maps

I don't think anyone of the Dev makes the effort to pick out auto-converted Beatmaps from the mode-specific ones.

Well, forgot about marathons.
Marathons are usually multi-BPM'ed and thus have different speeds. This can be between 75 and 500 BPM (KIRBYmix compilation), this definitely unreadable, just like DeltaMax - DmAshura.
@Stefan I don't understand what you mean, can you please explain (better)

Source: BMS

In original BMS played in LR2 or any other emulator it has speedchanges as well. No once calls it impossible. Yes, they can be hard and annoying but it's part of the game.

A very large and resounding no to this suggestion.

If this was implemented, I'll map the song start with the lowest BPM and later change it to normal.
So, you have to play with the slowest scrolling speed for the rest of the song.

Nah, just kidding. But SV is really the essential part of the beatmap.

Uhmm, you can select scroll speed like always, but it won't change anyore when speedblock will be used/implemented

And then you'll have to mash F3 like a freak to get 20-26 scrolling speed.

xelivous wrote: 2h5329

if a mania-specific map has a problem with terrible SV changes it's a problem with the ranking criteria for mania maps allowing extremely bad SV changes to get through. so there's really no reason for this mod tbh.

Majority of the fun mania maps are unranked

-Trophy- wrote: 2q2l31

Majority of the fun mania maps are unranked

if it's unranked you can just modify the map itself to remove slider velocity if you wanted to though??

Generally, don't be such thinking / focusing / narrow minded on one thing -> "This is an awful map with ridiculous speed changes / SV changes, I can't this. Firetruck this map" ; and try to learn it a hundred times.

Yes, it maybe take a longer time but that's the virtue while playing and learning it on the same time and eventually, those annoying speed changes / SV changes can be tackled easily and you'll be satisfied after you successfully cleared the mentioned maps.

_Gezo_ wrote: 516q3b

xelivous wrote: 2h5329

leaf - i is mapped for standard, and is an autoconvert
you're trying to get a mod made for a mode using a map made for another mode as an example

if a mania-specific map has a problem with terrible SV changes it's a problem with the ranking criteria for mania maps allowing extremely bad SV changes to get through. so there's really no reason for this mod tbh.

care to explain more why you're against ? I is an example of a song with inconstant BPM. You wouldn't say the same if the map was made for mania.

If it were to be made for mania, it would be pretty simple : the map would be unranked with no chance of being ranked. And nobody cares about adding mods for unranked maps.

That said, I'm not against it, I wouldn't mind if it were to be implemented, but I don't think the OP is using a right example by mentionning an AC.
I strongly recommend him to play mania-specific beatmaps and not some half-assed ACs.

Uhm, I think Siromaru & Cranky (??) - Conflict (Vocaloid ver.) Is a good example of a ranked mania map with many speed changes.
To bad I can't play 7K

I norminate kors k - smooooch by DJPop for a fun SV change.

And because it's fun, why I need no SV change for this?

My beatmap also contain SV changes, where it enchants playing experience and make my map a lot more beautiful.
I see no reason this should be implemented.

Agreed with Conflict having (ososick!!) big SV changes and the result is pretty nice if you ask me. SVs must fit the song to look good and feel nice to play.
I like to use SV changes in my own mapsets and they make them less... plain, or boring.

I can see this mod implemented as an unranked mod.

PyaKura wrote: 5g31s

Agreed with Conflict having (ososick!!) big SV changes and the result is pretty nice if you ask me. SVs must fit the song to look good and feel nice to play.
I like to use SV changes in my own mapsets and they make them less... plain, or boring.

I can see this mod implemented as an unranked mod.

Since o!m player must adapt with the SV change variations...

^ this that those these.

It's like standard player must adapt with the distance snap change tho.

That mod would only make sense if it's unranked, but it's not a bad idea

Ryu Sei wrote: 4y5e1h

The speedblock mod should ignore all SV/BPM changes

this
fuck you lr2 scum

‎

Redon wrote: 6g5w6i

I find it hard to believe there are people out there who honestly believe that basing scrolling speed off SV is a good idea, or even that any mapper should be given the tools to change scrolling speed mid-song for that matter.

"It's unnecessarily difficult to read, annoying, and everyone hates it! What, change it? No."
"It's part of the map, you see!"
"X has always been annoying garbage, so don't improve things because it would be unfair to those who had to play annoying garbage in the past."

It's hard to read these posts without going mad. Perhaps it's better not to care. Though one day, I'll probably end up writing a big(ger) rant to point out just how retarded I find the way scrolling speeds are currently handled truly is.

That is all.

wat, Are you actually saying that all o2jam maps are bad? Well made SV changes are hell of a fun (DJPop's Smoooch for example) just learn to play them.

I still don't understand why there is shouldn't be a "mod" like this when the mod itself would be
A) totally optional
B) reducing score so much, nobody would play it for getting a good rank or being completly unranked at all.

If people enjoy the map more with just one speed instead of changes then why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
It would still be something "optiional" like any other mod.


On the other hand you can always blame the modding process for bad speed changes (mode-specific) or old super BPM changing maps that are most likely auto converted.
But still: why is something that would be totally optional a bad thing?

bomber34 wrote: 1t343j

I still don't understand why there is shouldn't be a "mod" like this when the mod itself would be
A) totally optional
B) reducing score so much, nobody would play it for getting a good rank or being completly unranked at all.

If people enjoy the map more with just one speed instead of changes then why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
It would still be something "optiional" like any other mod.


On the other hand you can always blame the modding process for bad speed changes (mode-specific) or old super BPM changing maps that are most likely auto converted.
But still: why is something that would be totally optional a bad thing?

Finally someone who completely understands this.
Thanks.
If people don't want to use it, they won't, just like EVERY OTHER mod.

Chamelo_Th wrote: 1k2z5r

My beatmap also contain SV changes, where it enchants playing experience and make my map a lot more beautiful.
I see no reason this should be implemented.

well some people believe their SB (which they create for the map extra ...) enchants the experience and makes it a lot more beautiful
Visual Settings --> disable SB

well hitsounds are a must in every game mode and a lot of people think it enchants the playing experience and makes the song a lot more beautiful but people still can play without it by setting effect volume to 0% in sound options

99% of taiko player probably believe there is a must to have hitting different keys for blue and red hits ... there is still relax mod to just use one key for all (and that is unranked, nobody complains)

You can either use relax to not click in standard (which could be argued as bad since the slogan of the game is: rhythm is just a click away)

Chamelo_Th wrote: 1k2z5r

It's like standard player must adapt with the distance snap change tho.

nope, there is Auto Pilot ... which moves the cursor for you (unranked mod)

overall osu! is great, because it allows a lot of options to play the game in a way you prefer even if more than 50% of players will never use it

- if it is that terrible of a mod in regards for competetive play: go unrank for it

bomber34 wrote: 1t343j

99% of taiko player probably believe there is a must to have hitting different keys for blue and red hits ... there is still relax mod to just use one key for all (and that is unranked, nobody complains)

So just make that speedblock thing unranked and everybody's happy \:D/

bomber34 wrote: 1t343j

well some people believe their SB (which they create for the map extra ...) enchants the experience and makes it a lot more beautiful
Visual Settings --> disable SB

well hitsounds are a must in every game mode and a lot of people think it enchants the playing experience and makes the song a lot more beautiful but people still can play without it by setting effect volume to 0% in sound options

99% of taiko player probably believe there is a must to have hitting different keys for blue and red hits ... there is still relax mod to just use one key for all (and that is unranked, nobody complains)

You can either use relax to not click in standard (which could be argued as bad since the slogan of the game is: rhythm is just a click away)

there is Auto Pilot ... which moves the cursor for you (unranked mod)

overall osu! is great, because it allows a lot of options to play the game in a way you prefer even if more than 50% of players will never use it

- if it is that terrible of a mod in regards for competetive play: go unrank for it

So, you want to have one for mania?

Then, go for unranked.

Still, the OP's objective doesn't want to learn the damn thing that damages his gameplay. \:D/

Aaaaaand, unranked mod it is.

‎

Redon wrote: 6g5w6i

-Kamikaze- wrote: 101r26

wat, Are you actually saying that all o2jam maps are bad? Well made SV changes are hell of a fun (DJPop's Smoooch for example) just learn to play them.

I wasn't calling any maps bad. What I'm saying is that even when used sensibly, scrolling speed changes add very little or nothing to the quality of a map - They'd be just as fun without them. Considering that, I really don't think that little luxury is worth the SV horror we currently put up with especially on auto converts.

In my personal opinion, both mappers and the game should keep their hands off scrolling speeds and approach rates, and let the configure it based on preference. You know, instead of having to stick a piece of paper over half my taiko screen.

It evens the odds for all and makes the game more fun.

I agree with that point in case af AC's which have really nasty BPM changes, but the thing is, on mania specific maps, well made SV changes (DJPop's or Ishi's) are what makes map fun. After playing DJPop's smoooch few times, when I tried no-SV version on Priti's mapset, it felt unbelievably empty. And it's not because it was easier, hell it's on same level for me, but SV changes were just too much fun, so getting rid of them breaks the experience. And many players actually love SV's.
So in summary I agree that AC's BPM changes are bad, and it isn't something we should learn to play, but mania specific SV-changes reading is something players should learn.

‎

Redon wrote: 6g5w6i

Wouldn't the way you put it make it a very subjective matter? I enjoyed that map you mentioned, especially the way the hit sounding was done, but I personally thought the SV changes were awful. I do not think they were fun.

As a player, I don't want to be left wondering if my game just had a hiccup, or if that was the mapper trying to be creative with extreme SV changes. Although I don't understand how you could enjoy that, I can respect that you do, and in the same spirit I don't think it's a good idea to force it on people who find it extremely unintuitive and irritating.

If mapper wants his map to be SV-change heavy, then let him do it, you don't have to play it. It's the same with AR settings or just the way map is done on std. Respect mapper's style. We have same issue on mania with some pepole hating LN heavy patterns just because they don't like them. If you don't like it, fine, you're not forced to play it, but don't go around saying that they're awful. Of course I don't imply that you're doing it and yes it is a very subjective matter. And that's exactly why I said that this mod is a good idea, but only as unranked mod, similar to LR2's Consistent BPM Fix setting. /thread

Well, I'm fine with it being an unranked mod

Time for a little bump

Slider Velocity
Why is it, that in Mania the game doesn't speed up when there are green sections, while on Mania specific maps, it does.
Also it does change speed in Taiko, so why not in mania?
I recall seeing a video of Mania some long time ago in which score was completely screwed up, but SV takes part at the speed.
Since this wouldn't make things easier or harder (maybe harder, but those mods still give 1.00) I'd say make it a mod (or just a little checkmark when playing it, just like the Disable Video/Storyboard, BG Dim etc.
Otherwise it can also be an unranked mod, but I really want it
Oh, this ofcourse only counts for auto-converts, which are my favorite

this mod doesn't exist by design, sorry

What?
What on earth do you mean?

I've seen similar thread like this...
But well, SV change is a part of o!m gameplay. Unranked mod IMO.
Also, why not a mod like.... constant speed, that ignores entirely SV and BPM change (as seen in StepMania)?

Ryu Sei wrote: 4y5e1h

I've seen similar thread like this...
But well, SV change is a part of o!m gameplay. Unranked mod IMO.
Also, why not a mod like.... constant speed, that ignores entirely SV and BPM change (as seen in StepMania)?

That'll be t/192110 I guess?

Yep. I both requested a mod to stop the Sv changes from bpm changes, but also reqyested sv changes to be visible

baraatje123 wrote: 5t724b

Yep. I both requested a mod to stop the Sv changes from bpm changes, but also reqyested sv changes to be visible

t/192110 i love this mod!!

Bump

xelivous wrote: 2h5329

leaf - i is mapped for standard, and is an autoconvert
you're trying to get a mod made for a mode using a map made for another mode as an example

if a mania-specific map has a problem with terrible SV changes it's a problem with the ranking criteria for mania maps allowing extremely bad SV changes to get through. so there's really no reason for this mod tbh.

While you say that, I see no reason to not have this modifier available. It even poses a fair score penalty (Think of Stepmania and it's C300/C600)

Unranked, sure.

Consider merging this thread to t/192110

Ryu Sei wrote: 4y5e1h

Consider merging this thread to t/192110

good idea.
Mark this as duplicate/invalid please, then I'll merge these two (unless it shouldn't be merged)
So can a please tell me if it should merge or not? Because then there are 2 mods (speed mods for Mania)

Merged as per requested.

Thanks, changed the OP to talk about both mods now

baraatje123 wrote: 5t724b

What?
What on earth do you mean?

woc2006 was asked to implement either mmods or cmods and he had answered that he wouldn't implement either- by design. Apparently this game was NOT meant to have either.

Bump

Bump
This would make the game more fun

No need to bump a 5 page long thread so frequently, once a month is more than enough.

The devs read every threads and the last thing they wanna see is empty comments like "Bump" or "." If you wanna bump a request early, make sure that you have ideas to add to it.

For mods.... how about Split-scroll mod as seen in StepMania? Make it as Split-A and Split-B, when...
Player uses Split-A have their buttons splitted and different scroll direction.
and using Split-B ignore these words :/
makes the scroll speed on L and R side different (make the scroll speed is modifyable).

Ryu, that would be nigh impossible to play, if I understand you correctly

Ryu Sei wrote: 4y5e1h

For mods.... how about Split-scroll mod as seen in StepMania? Make it as Split-A and Split-B, when...
Player uses Split-A have their buttons splitted and different scroll direction.
and using Split-B ignore these words :/
makes the scroll speed on L and R side different (make the scroll speed is modifyable).

I play FFR like this with hidden and it's actually fun lol... Although quite hard to read, especially on streams .---.

baraatje123 wrote: 5t724b

Ryu, that would be nigh impossible to play, if I understand you correctly

At first i used to be a reverse scroller but then i started trying out the original up scroll on stepmania, i found it much harder... But much more fun, since it made it more challenging, i like the cross scroll though, because i can also cross my hands with it
(from Q,S,L,P to P,L,Q,S)
Or (D,F,J,K to J,K,D,F) and switch my hand position where my right hand is on the left and my keft hand is on the right

this reminds me of o2mania speed effect: 4D notes and Speedbat

The second thing already got requested (found it when seqrching for something else) t/173759?hilit=Taiko+speed
I'll edit OP later (as I am on phone)

As it's now only the speedblock (prev comment, still didn't update OP) I'll give another reason why this should be added
I'm now starting to play mania specifics (4k only)
Most maps are doable, but some are hard, and the slowdown can be sudden for 'a rookie player'
For example: Ryu* - I'm so happy
The sv changes are fun if you know them well, but if you don't, they are a real pain.

why does an nsv mod thread already exist... I guess people were just expecting it to already be a work in progress

Updated OP after a long time

I agree with Gezo here (And I played stepmania for years only using C speeds.) Speed changes are part of the map, and removing them should automatically disqualify your score from being ranked (think random, not nofail).

Personally, I think the larger problem is that without checking the editor before playing, it's impossible to tell if a map has SVs at all. At least if a map has true BPM changes you can see the min and max BPM and average, but there's absolutely no indication of SVs when there really should be.

Bump

Im used to play with cmods from Stepmania and many other players too .These sv changes can be annoying sometimes.
So why no option for a constant scroll speed ?

Because this is a different game and has its own gameplay. We're styled more after o2jam/djmax which have SV changes than we are Stepmania. This certainly wouldn't be rankable and I'm not even considering this as a mod right now just because I don't feel it's right - I think that players should play maps 'as the mapper intended'.
If you want no SV changes edit the map yourself.

smoogipooo wrote: 4a5y4s

I think that players should play maps 'as the mapper intended'.

std mode has relax and autopilot and hell, even spun out.
Those are definitely affecting the way of playing the beatmap : respectively streams, jumps and spinners become irrelevant as a result.

As for the mod itself I'd say it can be useful on some maps in order to do some pattern recognition before attempting a score, but there's not many maps that are SV-heavy enough for that.

And unranked obviously

More than a mod, I vote for an option like "fixed speed" for "constant speed".

Speed change is nothing related with skill, should be optional.

Thanks for the bump :3

Just edit out the SVs if they're too annoying. Like what I do with maps with slowjams.

Also, SV sightreading is a skill (there are a good amount of SV + negative speed maps from where I came from). Memorizing isnt.

Read properly please
This is mostly for autoconverts with sudden BPM changes
Those can't be edited out

‎

It can't, as green sections in autocoverts don't change SV
Only BPM does
The green sections only work in mania-specific

BPM changes =\= SV changes people what the hell

And if you don't want BPM changes, play with steady BPM, it's already an option

What's the problem

Transformau5 wrote: 4hf3b

BPM changes =\= SV changes people what the hell

And if you don't want BPM changes, play with steady BPM, it's already an option

What's the problem

Well, you're basically like telling us to walk on water on bare feet.

But if this were to be implemented, wouldn't the following have to happen:

1. Either the score from Cmod will be Unranked or there would be a severe x0.50 score multiplier, OR
2. The entire ranking system would have to be adjusted to ignore speed ups and slowdowns on the maps.

Against this. Beatmappers have complete control as to whether or not they want the song to appear to scroll constantly; if they have a song with BPM changes and they don't proportion the SVs accordingly, then it's obvious that they want the players to have to deal with those changes during play.