If you read someone post that you don't want to fix it, so, but if you will do, thanks and good luck o7peppy wrote: 73101g
Leaving bugs is not fair to players which remain in the game and have put up with them for this long. Accusing me of not fixing this bug when it is already marked confirmed is not a wise move. It will be fixed, but has roots which lie deep in algorithms that could affect other elements and need to be thoroughly tested. This will happen, but it may take some time.
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Hyperdash fruits don't always spawn correctly in CTB [confirmed] 563m3v
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Last Remnant_old
Don Omar wrote: 3c644s
First. Double time increases the speed of map by 1,5x, not by 2x.
Second. Ryuuta moves in 2x speed, so... PROBLEM?
EDIT 1: HalfTime decreases speed of map by 0,75x, not by 0,5x.
Ryuuta moves in 0,5x speed so many hyperdashes appear.
This is not a bug of speed. This is a bug of mods naming.
EDIT 2: DoubleTime needs double speed of reaction to catch even unvanished hyperdashes so most of them are uncatchable as player hasn't got enough reaction to it.
Clearly you have no idea on what you are talking.
DT makes song faster by 1.5x and ryuuta is also faster by 1.5x, same goes for HT (song speed multiplier is 0.75x and also is ryuuta's). I made application that measured ryuuta's "speed" (distance / time) and results are (nomod: 500 units/s, DT: 750 units/s, HT: 375 units/s) which are proof of my statement.
here is a re of the map... I can't think of a better, simpler way to illustrate it!
Thanks, edited OP.MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855
here is a re of the map... I can't think of a better, simpler way to illustrate it!
Also there are "uncatchable" fruits (without DT) that should have been given hyper-dash, but not with the current algorithm:peppy wrote: 73101g
Leaving bugs is not fair to players which remain in the game and have put up with them for this long. Accusing me of not fixing this bug when it is already marked confirmed is not a wise move. It will be fixed, but has roots which lie deep in algorithms that could affect other elements and need to be thoroughly tested. This will happen, but it may take some time.
Nice. I tried test build and it seems to work now. With couple retries I could this map, which was impossible before
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/144621
Will try some other maps later.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/144621
Will try some other maps later.
Last Remnant_old
Yup, fixed now, both HT, nomod and DT spawn hypers on same locations which is great but it brings one trouble.
All HT scores would have to be wiped out due to the fact that there are maps which were (are) unFCable with nomod but were FCable with HT (since it spawned more hyperdash jumps).
PS. Example map of map "statementreply" wrote about is this http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=112586&m=2 (combo 403 - 405)
All HT scores would have to be wiped out due to the fact that there are maps which were (are) unFCable with nomod but were FCable with HT (since it spawned more hyperdash jumps).
PS. Example map of map "statementreply" wrote about is this http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=112586&m=2 (combo 403 - 405)
I'm really happy to see this fixed ^^
Tested some maps with NoMod/HR too: They keep the same number of HDashes after applying HT or DT on them. Songs as Kokou no Sousei (3 pixel-jumps) or The Big Black (non-correct HDash generation due to awkward pattern) would be now unFCable with HT!
Aaaaand I've lurked a bit with some songs too:
I'll try the Kirby Mix Compilation now... That Aurora2 part should be able now.
Tested some maps with NoMod/HR too: They keep the same number of HDashes after applying HT or DT on them. Songs as Kokou no Sousei (3 pixel-jumps) or The Big Black (non-correct HDash generation due to awkward pattern) would be now unFCable with HT!
Aaaaand I've lurked a bit with some songs too:
FCable songs which were impossible before
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=107297&m=2 (In a normal play, there should've been 5-6 misses due to DT incorrect HDash creation. That miss wasn't due to them)
Messin' around with TAG4 maps
The first song was a real pain before, now it can be FCable. The 2nd one was directly impossible to before
I'll try the Kirby Mix Compilation now... That Aurora2 part should be able now.
Last Remnant_old
OK, I will try to give my idea on how to fix them. Lets say that example is same map I pointed out in previous post:
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=112586&m=2
What current algorithm probably does is checking 2 separate non-littleDroplet objects, and if they are distant enough, first one becomes hyperdash object. At example map, we have 3 "critical" objects, 403, 404 and 405 combo objects (normal fruits). Current algorithm checks 403 and 404, figures out they are not distant enough leading to no hyperdash, same goes for objects 404 and 405. Indeed, jump between 403 and 404 is catchable, and jump between 404 and 405, but what IS uncatchable is jump between 403 and 405 (which would become hyper if we removed 404). So my solution is to check 2 or 3 objects more in advance (if there is no need for hyper between 403 and 404, check for 403 - 405 distance and if it is big enough, create hypers on all 3 hitObjects (in case 403 - 404 distance was enough, 403-405 checking won't be necessary) ).
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=112586&m=2
What current algorithm probably does is checking 2 separate non-littleDroplet objects, and if they are distant enough, first one becomes hyperdash object. At example map, we have 3 "critical" objects, 403, 404 and 405 combo objects (normal fruits). Current algorithm checks 403 and 404, figures out they are not distant enough leading to no hyperdash, same goes for objects 404 and 405. Indeed, jump between 403 and 404 is catchable, and jump between 404 and 405, but what IS uncatchable is jump between 403 and 405 (which would become hyper if we removed 404). So my solution is to check 2 or 3 objects more in advance (if there is no need for hyper between 403 and 404, check for 403 - 405 distance and if it is big enough, create hypers on all 3 hitObjects (in case 403 - 404 distance was enough, 403-405 checking won't be necessary) ).
Last Remnant_old
http://www.mediafire.com/?ipn6pdlwcc3zd54
.osu file for map http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/25
Objects 1 and 2 are catchable, so are objects 2 and 3, but 1-3 are not (simple proof is that you can move left to right holding down dash button and you can miss 1st fruit, get 2nd and miss 3rd (as I said in previous post, if there were no 2nd fruit, 1-3 would become hyper jump and fruit no.1 would become hyperdash fruit) ).
Similar example can be made with 4, 5 or more fruits in a row like that.
PS. Basically, as I mentioned in previous post, checking one fruit in advance (after we determine that 1-2 distance is not hyperdash-necessary, check for 1-3 and if it is hyperdash-necessary, make hypers on all 3 objects) should fix this issue in my opinion.
.osu file for map http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/25
Objects 1 and 2 are catchable, so are objects 2 and 3, but 1-3 are not (simple proof is that you can move left to right holding down dash button and you can miss 1st fruit, get 2nd and miss 3rd (as I said in previous post, if there were no 2nd fruit, 1-3 would become hyper jump and fruit no.1 would become hyperdash fruit) ).
Similar example can be made with 4, 5 or more fruits in a row like that.
PS. Basically, as I mentioned in previous post, checking one fruit in advance (after we determine that 1-2 distance is not hyperdash-necessary, check for 1-3 and if it is hyperdash-necessary, make hypers on all 3 objects) should fix this issue in my opinion.
@ppy if you want some examples of "pixel jumps" there are some maps that has them:
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=71562&m=2
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=104945&m=2 (Ijou Nashi difficulty)
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/18009
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/20789
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=64558&m=2
And there are a lot more.
Edit: http://ha.ppy.sh/ss/1068
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=71562&m=2
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=104945&m=2 (Ijou Nashi difficulty)
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/18009
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/20789
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=64558&m=2
And there are a lot more.
Edit: http://ha.ppy.sh/ss/1068
It became popular amongst mappers/testers a year ago or so, when many players tried to FC this map w/o HardRock: http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=68431&m=2 (which contains that famous pattern).
It consists on 2 consecutive extreme dashes (1/2 separated notes), which are almost HDashed.
The correct way to play them is positioning the ryuuta at the edge of the 1st fruit and making a sharp movement to get the other 2.
|____________3|
|______2______|
|1____________|
|.\o/...............|
|____________3|
|______2______|
|........\o/........|
|____________3| => CATCHED!
|...............\o/.|
In some cases, it's possible to do it (depends on the BPM, and the distance of the notes in the screen). But when the distance between them is quite close to the HDash, the result of the movement would be something like this:
|____________3|
|______2______|
|1____________|
|.\o/...............|
|____________3|
|______2______|
|.......\o/.........|
|____________3| => MISS!
|.............\o/...|
I hope the graphics are enough explanatory...
It consists on 2 consecutive extreme dashes (1/2 separated notes), which are almost HDashed.
The correct way to play them is positioning the ryuuta at the edge of the 1st fruit and making a sharp movement to get the other 2.
|____________3|
|______2______|
|1____________|
|.\o/...............|
|____________3|
|______2______|
|........\o/........|
|____________3| => CATCHED!
|...............\o/.|
In some cases, it's possible to do it (depends on the BPM, and the distance of the notes in the screen). But when the distance between them is quite close to the HDash, the result of the movement would be something like this:
|____________3|
|______2______|
|1____________|
|.\o/...............|
|____________3|
|______2______|
|.......\o/.........|
|____________3| => MISS!
|.............\o/...|
I hope the graphics are enough explanatory...
made a custom one with really tiny
http://puu.sh/14fXc
http://puu.sh/14fXc
Also, you should take a look at this one:
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2
This is somewhat different, we're talking about a reverse slider, not 3 circles.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2
This is somewhat different, we're talking about a reverse slider, not 3 circles.
This is a different bug where if there's a droplet in between two slider ends, it doesn't get hyperdashed. Nothing to do with reverse arrows.VelperK wrote: 442m2f
Also, you should take a look at this one:
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2
This is somewhat different, we're talking about a reverse slider, not 3 circles.
There are some jumps that are possible, but there are some that not, like the short map above, even with this trick is impossible.peppy wrote: 73101g
At a code level, the above should still be possible (though hard), which is why I'm asking for a specific test beatmap to be created so I can check.
peppy wrote: 73101g
At a code level, the above should still be possible (though hard), which is why I'm asking for a specific test beatmap to be created so I can check.
osu file format v9
[General]
AudioFilename: tutorial.ogg
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: -1
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Normal
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 2
LetterboxInBreaks: 1
[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 32
[Metadata]
Title:osu! tutorial
Artist:Peter Lambert
Creator:peppy
Version:CTB Test
Source:
Tags:
[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:7
CircleSize:5
OverallDifficulty:7
ApproachRate:7
SliderMultiplier:2.56
SliderTickRate:4
[Events]
//Background and Video events
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 ()
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples
//Background Colour Transformations
3,100,163,162,255
[TimingPoints]
255,374.123148869836,4,1,0,100,1,0
4650,-50,4,1,0,100,0,0
[HitObjects]
112,192,1751,1,0
256,192,1845,1,0
400,192,1938,1,0
496,192,3247,5,0
256,192,3435,1,0
16,192,3622,1,0
0,192,4744,6,0,B|512:192,1,512
Last Remnant_old
I also provided example in my previous post and basically explained what can be done to fix this: p/1779211
OMGeldnl wrote: 2g1ve
There are some jumps that are possible, but there are some that not, like the short map above, even with this trick is impossible.peppy wrote: 73101g
At a code level, the above should still be possible (though hard), which is why I'm asking for a specific test beatmap to be created so I can check.
I think the DT bug was succesfully resolved IMHO, I tried different maps and they all play very well! But I don't have problems with waiting a bit longer either, in case there is a little glitch or somethingpeppy wrote: 73101g
I am going to leave this second issue until the first has been made public and confirmed as resolved, as I'd rather not create problems on top of problems.
eldnl wrote: 2g1ve
There are two problems with hyperdashes and doubletime ...
- First off, when a song have hyperdashes without mods, some of them dissapear when you play with doubletime, and most of them are uncatchable.
- In a second place we have the hyperdashes even when you play with dt, most of them are uncatchable too.
I have an example, please play this map with doubletime: http://puu.sh/13QUy
As you can see the first jump doesn't have hyperdash and is perfectly catchable, in the second jump we had an hyperdash which dissapeared with the doubletime, but it is still catchable; the third jump had an hyperdash too, but it isn't catchable with doubletime, and in the last jump we have an hyperdash even with dt, which is impossible to catch ...
discuss please.
Bumping because VelperK just made a new discovery.
Apparently, playing with vsync on at 60 FPS makes the fruits stutter on some frames, causing them to not fall, yet still letting the catcher move forward. This makes previously impossible jumps like the one on this map just barely possible, but only if you're not playing with 120 FPS or more!
Apparently, playing with vsync on at 60 FPS makes the fruits stutter on some frames, causing them to not fall, yet still letting the catcher move forward. This makes previously impossible jumps like the one on this map just barely possible, but only if you're not playing with 120 FPS or more!
nope, that shit about miliseconds or frames or whatever does not exist, that jump is practically uncatchable with 120fps or more because the catcher stops in the next fruit, and because of that the next fruit is uncatchable. . . when you play with 60fps the catcher doesn't stop in the next fruit and keep going to the other fruit, not sure if you can understand this xDMillhioreF wrote: 2k1855
Yes, exactly. It was already possible, but you have to be pixel perfect - apparently playing with 60 FPS gives you a few milliseconds of leeway.
Does double time count? You do get a high velocity than normal.MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855
It's been confirmed that this map's jump is sometimes catchable due to some weird song start lag... Supposedly it wouldn't happen if you placed the notes ~5 seconds after the song starts, but I haven't tested that.
EDIT: also hardrock makes hyperdashes appear, so it doesn't count
that's why it doesn't count eitherManchineel wrote: 3m5u6f
Does double time count? You do get a high velocity than normal.MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855
It's been confirmed that this map's jump is sometimes catchable due to some weird song start lag... Supposedly it wouldn't happen if you placed the notes ~5 seconds after the song starts, but I haven't tested that.
EDIT: also hardrock makes hyperdashes appear, so it doesn't count
you retrograd person, stop trolling these kind of threads and gtfo.Manchineel wrote: 3m5u6f
that's why it doesn't count eitherThen we have a solution! use Hardrock or double time for the problem.
More score, more people happy. Also you'll gain more skill this way!
Genius.
you did the same with the ctb droplets thingy topic.
Seph
actually running on vsync 60fps makes my ryuuta move faster than it should be (or its just me) but i tried doing it on some pixel jump and i apparently caught that pixel jump on rainbow tylenol when i pause and switched from unlimited to 60fps. though playing on it makes ryuuta control hard as fuck
60fps is not faster, there is something different with the hyperdash I think.Seph wrote: 6k1228
actually running on vsync 60fps makes my ryuuta move faster than it should be (or its just me) but i tried doing it on some pixel jump and i apparently caught that pixel jump on rainbow tylenol when i pause and switched from unlimited to 60fps. though playing on it makes ryuuta control hard as fuck
I'm bumping this. I'd really like to see it fixed since CtB is the most broken osu! mode as of now.
By the way, here's one simple example of an impossible jump: http://puu.sh/1jxet
By the way, here's one simple example of an impossible jump: http://puu.sh/1jxet
Here is an updated version of the Watashi map with three scenarios where hyperfruit fail to spawn:
*3-Note Jump
*Spaced Stream (same broken mechanic as 3-Note Jump, but in a more extreme scenario)
*Fast Slider
Note that the 3-Note Jump is catchable under some strange lag-based circumstances, but the others are definitely not (and the 3-Note Jump can't be caught without lag either.) Also included is a tick rate 2 version of Fast Slider, to show that hyperfruits spawn correctly when there are no small droplets involved.
*3-Note Jump
*Spaced Stream (same broken mechanic as 3-Note Jump, but in a more extreme scenario)
*Fast Slider
Note that the 3-Note Jump is catchable under some strange lag-based circumstances, but the others are definitely not (and the 3-Note Jump can't be caught without lag either.) Also included is a tick rate 2 version of Fast Slider, to show that hyperfruits spawn correctly when there are no small droplets involved.
This isn't high-priority because it's been a problem with CTB since CTB was a game. If it wasn't high priority then, it's not just going to become a focal point now. Old bugs are low priority compared to new bugs and trust me there are a lot of new bugs that can and should be fixed before this bug which everyone is already used to gets fixed.
One can thing of this from an accessibility standpoint. How many players does this bug affect compared to other bugs? There aren't that many "impossible" CTB maps, and there are far less players who can play these CTB maps anyways. Fixing this would only please a small group of players, while gamewide bugs/ bugs affecting wider ranges of people take higher priority.
Also this will require peppy to just drop everything he's doing and focus on nothing but this bug for a whole development day.
One can thing of this from an accessibility standpoint. How many players does this bug affect compared to other bugs? There aren't that many "impossible" CTB maps, and there are far less players who can play these CTB maps anyways. Fixing this would only please a small group of players, while gamewide bugs/ bugs affecting wider ranges of people take higher priority.
Also this will require peppy to just drop everything he's doing and focus on nothing but this bug for a whole development day.
What about XAT trying to mod CtB diff wich can't even determine if the maps are FCable ?TheVileOne wrote: p102h
Fixing this would only please a small group of players, while gamewide bugs/ bugs affecting wider ranges of people take higher priority.
I personnally see it as high priority for the sake of CtB mapping, modding and gaming, but I understand this bug is pretty tricky to fix cause determining a maximum non hyper jump too short could make a lot of maps too easy to FC, and using a too long one could not entierly fix the problem (well the problem is a bit more complicated than that but this is an easy way to explain why it's tricky to fix).
All the cases in MillhioreF's example map should now be fixed on the test build. Please test all cases (including other maps, as hyperdash may now be spawning in places it is not required, which may or may not need to be fixed).
I also added an alert when watching a replay which moves faster than humanely possible, which only displays on the test build. Might be handy for checking any replays you think may not be legit, and pointing them out to me in a PM for confirmation. Keep in mind this may be a result of lag, too.
I also added an alert when watching a replay which moves faster than humanely possible, which only displays on the test build. Might be handy for checking any replays you think may not be legit, and pointing them out to me in a PM for confirmation. Keep in mind this may be a result of lag, too.
Detected a little problem with many sliders :
Taking this map as example :
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=46477&m=2
00:22:537 (1,2,3) - those sliders have now hypers in the first beat and the middle droplet but the hyper isn't triggered when the player catch them. For this map I catched the sliders sometimes without the fix so basically they was catchable (with dash ofc) but I think they still need this fix since they was really really really hard to catch.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2
00:45:257 (1,1,1) - Kinda same problem some elements of sliders seems to trigger the hyper showed in the fruit and some not.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/65294
01:28:530 (7,8) - Here it's a mapping problem. Randomness of the position of the droplet could be kinda annoying to map cause for the same slider speed/direction it's going to pop or not the hyper droplet (you can compare with previous sliders). Anyway the hyper isn't trigger when playing as in the others maps.
Taking this map as example :
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=46477&m=2
00:22:537 (1,2,3) - those sliders have now hypers in the first beat and the middle droplet but the hyper isn't triggered when the player catch them. For this map I catched the sliders sometimes without the fix so basically they was catchable (with dash ofc) but I think they still need this fix since they was really really really hard to catch.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2
00:45:257 (1,1,1) - Kinda same problem some elements of sliders seems to trigger the hyper showed in the fruit and some not.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/65294
01:28:530 (7,8) - Here it's a mapping problem. Randomness of the position of the droplet could be kinda annoying to map cause for the same slider speed/direction it's going to pop or not the hyper droplet (you can compare with previous sliders). Anyway the hyper isn't trigger when playing as in the others maps.
Regarding this: Even with the hyper-droplets, they seem to be a bit unstable and those sliders are very hard to catch. Can someone confirm this?Drafura wrote: 6f4h37
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2
00:45:257 (1,1,1) - Kinda same problem some elements of sliders seems to trigger the hyper showed in the fruit and some not.
About the generation of hypers, yes it seems to trigger a little bit too easily for example :
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=127363&m=2
02:27:853 (2,3,4) - Example of unrequired hyperdashes in a 2 fruits jump. The fruits are allready catchables and not that hard.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/85550&m=2
00:29:714 (1,2,3) - Example of unrequired hyperdashes in a 3 fruits jump. The fruits are allready catchables and not that hard. I just realize with this map that with little circle size the hypers are triggered way to often.
More example wich shouldn't get hyperdash :
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=93842&m=2
All extra hyperdashes added in this map are not needed.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=128872&m=2
00:16:303 (2) - Not required.
I hope this will be helpfull to adjust the triggering values.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=127363&m=2
02:27:853 (2,3,4) - Example of unrequired hyperdashes in a 2 fruits jump. The fruits are allready catchables and not that hard.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/85550&m=2
00:29:714 (1,2,3) - Example of unrequired hyperdashes in a 3 fruits jump. The fruits are allready catchables and not that hard. I just realize with this map that with little circle size the hypers are triggered way to often.
More example wich shouldn't get hyperdash :
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=93842&m=2
All extra hyperdashes added in this map are not needed.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=128872&m=2
00:16:303 (2) - Not required.
I hope this will be helpfull to adjust the triggering values.
Droplet hyperdashes still don't seem to work correctly. The first fruit of a slider now gives hyperdash up to the droplet as it should, but the droplet doesn't renew the hyperdash status and Ryuuta only moves at normal speed (which isn't always enough.) Fast Slider on my example map seems to still be uncatchable because of this.
Seph
Here's an example of hyperfruits spawning where they aren't needed.
This map on TAG4 difficulty:
00:12:042 (1,1,1) - these three notes are just barely catchable (you have about 1/10 second of leeway) but now they're much easier because hyperfruit spawn anyway.
This map on TAG4 difficulty:
00:12:042 (1,1,1) - these three notes are just barely catchable (you have about 1/10 second of leeway) but now they're much easier because hyperfruit spawn anyway.
This has extra hyperfruits and it was possible to FC before. They are unneeded.
00:19:900 (12,1) - in this map is perfectly catchable without a hyperfruit.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/90192
I really don't like thinking about making already possible maps easier just to fix some bug that affect 0.01% of maps.
00:19:900 (12,1) - in this map is perfectly catchable without a hyperfruit.
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/90192
I really don't like thinking about making already possible maps easier just to fix some bug that affect 0.01% of maps.
Then peppy obviously set the catchable distance rate wayy too short, because the hyperfruit change to fix these issues would have been a tiny fraction of a change in the spacing differential. This is a large, way overdoing it change. It fixes it, but it's breaking other things.
There shouldn't be a limit that's considered too difficult to catch. If it's catchable, then it should be allowed. the hyperfruits shouldn't present a threshold for too difficult, unless that threshold is uncatchable.
There shouldn't be a limit that's considered too difficult to catch. If it's catchable, then it should be allowed. the hyperfruits shouldn't present a threshold for too difficult, unless that threshold is uncatchable.
Slider behavior has improved somewhat - now all fruits in it are catchable. However, the hyperdash now ignores droplets completely, and as a result it speeds past most of them, making SS impossible. Additionally, the (1,1,1) - in the map I previously linked still generates hyperfruit when it does not need to.
The example I posted earlier is now resolved. I will look for other maps though. Kind of a pain that in order to properly test I keep having to switch from test build to regular build. Shouldn't include this update until everything is thoroughly tested or we might not be able to figure out the full effect of these changes.
Yup catching droplets depend on the slider shape/consistency, for some sliders they seems to be totally ignored.
Antoher wierd behavior is about very very long sliders like this one :
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/19156 @ 01:40:987 (3) - The hyper is here but the speed up doesn't seems to work if you aren't in the very good timing.
About hyperdash spawning on lot of maps :
It's a bit better now but not enough. Too many hyperdashes seems to spawn on a lot of maps. My previous post contain maps wich still have this problem.
Antoher wierd behavior is about very very long sliders like this one :
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/19156 @ 01:40:987 (3) - The hyper is here but the speed up doesn't seems to work if you aren't in the very good timing.
About hyperdash spawning on lot of maps :
It's a bit better now but not enough. Too many hyperdashes seems to spawn on a lot of maps. My previous post contain maps wich still have this problem.
I checked With a dance number.
Here's what I found
Before:
Hyperfruits
00:07:889 (3) -
00:35:557 -
00:39:104 -
00:42:551 (3,4,5) -
00:45:794 -
00:53:294 (7) -
01:02:112 (4) -
01:11:537 -
01:15:186 (4,5,6) -
01:17:416 (8) -
01:21:267 (2,3,4) -
01:45:185 -
02:34:746 -
02:36:368 -
02:56:739 (1,2,3) -
03:11:132 (4) -
03:11:435 -
03:15:996 -
03:17:821 (1) -
03:28:970 (7) -
03:29:984 (6,7,8) -
03:36:064 -
03:36:571 (5) -
03:43:260 -
03:45:592 (2) -
03:47:314 -
03:48:632 (1,2) -
03:55:929 (1) -
03:56:335 (3) -
04:01:807 -
04:06:673 (2) -
04:14:784 -
04:16:504 (3) -
04:19:138 -
After:
check and new indicate hyper fruits that I believe are newly spawned. I might have missed one or two in the original though.
00:07:889 (3) -
00:34:746 -
00:35:557 -
00:39:104 -
00:42:551 (3,4,5) -
00:45:794 -
00:48:835 (2) - (check)
00:53:294 (7) -
00:59:983 (1,2) - (check)
01:01:706 (2,3,4,5) - (check)
01:09:915 -
01:11:537 -
01:13:969 - (check)
01:15:186 (4,5,6) -
01:17:416 (8) -
01:21:267 (2,3,4) -
01:29:173 (1,2) - (check)
01:34:038 (1) - (check) 1.5
01:38:700 (8) - (check) 1.6 snap
01:44:172 - (new)
01:44:679 -
01:45:185 -
01:45:591 - (check)
01:45:794 - ^
01:46:199 - ^
01:58:564 - ^
01:59:578 (2) - ^ 1.5
02:34:341 - (check)
02:34:746 -
02:35:962 - (check)
02:36:368 -
02:42:652 - Why you should make your spacing consistent....
02:44:273 -
02:54:003 - (check)
02:54:611 - (check)
02:54:814 - (check)
02:55:016 - (check)
02:55:827 - (check)
02:56:739 (1,2,3) -
03:11:132 (4) -
03:11:435 -
03:15:996 -
03:17:821 (1) -
03:19:746 - (check) 1.7 snap
03:22:888 - (check)
03:24:510 - (check)
03:28:970 (7) -
03:29:984 (6,7,8,9) - (check 9)
03:32:720 (2,3) - (check)
03:34:645 - (check) -doesn't seem like a proper hyper to me
03:36:064 -
03:36:571 (5) -
03:43:260 -
03:45:592 (2) -
03:47:314 -
03:48:632 (1,2) -
03:50:558 (3) - (check) 1.51
03:55:929 (1) -
03:56:335 (3) -
04:00:591 - (check)
04:01:807 -
04:03:328 (2) - (check) 1.5 suspicious hyper
04:06:673 (2) -
04:07:889 (7) - (check)
04:10:321 - (check)
04:13:969 - (check)
04:14:578 (1,2,3,4) - (check)
04:16:504 (3) -
04:18:327 - (check)
04:18:733 - (check)
04:19:138 -
04:19:341 - (check)
Here's what I found
Before:
Hyperfruits
00:07:889 (3) -
00:35:557 -
00:39:104 -
00:42:551 (3,4,5) -
00:45:794 -
00:53:294 (7) -
01:02:112 (4) -
01:11:537 -
01:15:186 (4,5,6) -
01:17:416 (8) -
01:21:267 (2,3,4) -
01:45:185 -
02:34:746 -
02:36:368 -
02:56:739 (1,2,3) -
03:11:132 (4) -
03:11:435 -
03:15:996 -
03:17:821 (1) -
03:28:970 (7) -
03:29:984 (6,7,8) -
03:36:064 -
03:36:571 (5) -
03:43:260 -
03:45:592 (2) -
03:47:314 -
03:48:632 (1,2) -
03:55:929 (1) -
03:56:335 (3) -
04:01:807 -
04:06:673 (2) -
04:14:784 -
04:16:504 (3) -
04:19:138 -
After:
check and new indicate hyper fruits that I believe are newly spawned. I might have missed one or two in the original though.
00:07:889 (3) -
00:34:746 -
00:35:557 -
00:39:104 -
00:42:551 (3,4,5) -
00:45:794 -
00:48:835 (2) - (check)
00:53:294 (7) -
00:59:983 (1,2) - (check)
01:01:706 (2,3,4,5) - (check)
01:09:915 -
01:11:537 -
01:13:969 - (check)
01:15:186 (4,5,6) -
01:17:416 (8) -
01:21:267 (2,3,4) -
01:29:173 (1,2) - (check)
01:34:038 (1) - (check) 1.5
01:38:700 (8) - (check) 1.6 snap
01:44:172 - (new)
01:44:679 -
01:45:185 -
01:45:591 - (check)
01:45:794 - ^
01:46:199 - ^
01:58:564 - ^
01:59:578 (2) - ^ 1.5
02:34:341 - (check)
02:34:746 -
02:35:962 - (check)
02:36:368 -
02:42:652 - Why you should make your spacing consistent....
02:44:273 -
02:54:003 - (check)
02:54:611 - (check)
02:54:814 - (check)
02:55:016 - (check)
02:55:827 - (check)
02:56:739 (1,2,3) -
03:11:132 (4) -
03:11:435 -
03:15:996 -
03:17:821 (1) -
03:19:746 - (check) 1.7 snap
03:22:888 - (check)
03:24:510 - (check)
03:28:970 (7) -
03:29:984 (6,7,8,9) - (check 9)
03:32:720 (2,3) - (check)
03:34:645 - (check) -doesn't seem like a proper hyper to me
03:36:064 -
03:36:571 (5) -
03:43:260 -
03:45:592 (2) -
03:47:314 -
03:48:632 (1,2) -
03:50:558 (3) - (check) 1.51
03:55:929 (1) -
03:56:335 (3) -
04:00:591 - (check)
04:01:807 -
04:03:328 (2) - (check) 1.5 suspicious hyper
04:06:673 (2) -
04:07:889 (7) - (check)
04:10:321 - (check)
04:13:969 - (check)
04:14:578 (1,2,3,4) - (check)
04:16:504 (3) -
04:18:327 - (check)
04:18:733 - (check)
04:19:138 -
04:19:341 - (check)
Are you sure you really wanted this?
There wont be super difficult CTb maps as you know it now, because anything past a certain degree of catchability is now hypered. So anything that is 1.9 plus horizontal is now a hyper in With a dance Number, when before only some of them were. Fixing this is going to drastically reduce the difficulty of maps and its not like you can just bring that difficulty back.
There wont be super difficult CTb maps as you know it now, because anything past a certain degree of catchability is now hypered. So anything that is 1.9 plus horizontal is now a hyper in With a dance Number, when before only some of them were. Fixing this is going to drastically reduce the difficulty of maps and its not like you can just bring that difficulty back.
If you take a look at my profile: 220 plays - Hatsune Miku - With a Dance Number [0108 style] (Probably +400, counting offline tries and before-ranking tries).
That means it's a pretty well memorised map. I'm quite sure somebody who hasn't played it so much won't be able to do a nice performance there. It's challenging enough even with the new HDashes in my opinion, but I'm pretty sure most pros will rage about the "simplicity" of such a popular map.
That means it's a pretty well memorised map. I'm quite sure somebody who hasn't played it so much won't be able to do a nice performance there. It's challenging enough even with the new HDashes in my opinion, but I'm pretty sure most pros will rage about the "simplicity" of such a popular map.
I'm most worried about getting huge limitation in term non hyper jump difficulty for ctb mapping than for converted maps. Non hyperdashed jumps are part of CtB, think about Zhsteven's maps, he don't use that many hyperdashes, and it is the intetended behavior he wanted while mapping.Deif wrote: 4o495
That means it's a pretty well memorised map. I'm quite sure somebody who hasn't played it so much won't be able to do a nice performance there. It's challenging enough even with the new HDashes in my opinion, but I'm pretty sure most pros will rage about the "simplicity" of such a popular map.
Imo jumps wich are already catchable by most experienced players shouldn't change. If some jumps have to became hyper to fix the bug i'm ok, but i'm totally against a huge change wich will affect a lot of maps (inculding ctb maps, ranked or not).
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=93842&m=2
I've tried test build but this map still has problem. 210x~220x part(without hyper) was the best part of that beatmap T_T
I don't know what is the current triggering mechanism but I think the best way is just stick to previous triggering method but add some situations
1) on multiple jumps to same direction: add hyperdash where a jump can't be catched if previous jumps were catched
2) add hyperdash on very fast sliders
I'm pretty sure that current one is not like this. I didn't check case 2 yet though..
I've tried test build but this map still has problem. 210x~220x part(without hyper) was the best part of that beatmap T_T
I don't know what is the current triggering mechanism but I think the best way is just stick to previous triggering method but add some situations
1) on multiple jumps to same direction: add hyperdash where a jump can't be catched if previous jumps were catched
2) add hyperdash on very fast sliders
I'm pretty sure that current one is not like this. I didn't check case 2 yet though..
I'm thinking that this would also help find out cheaters, to some degree. People would take advantage of this limitation and cheat their catcher with some boosted speed.peppy wrote: 73101g
I also added an alert when watching a replay which moves faster than humanely possible, which only displays on the test build. Might be handy for checking any replays you think may not be legit, and pointing them out to me in a PM for confirmation.
I think is not the correct way to fix this, the spacing are fine as it is, the only problem are the "pixel jumps" and there should be a way to fix them without changing anything else.TheVileOne wrote: p102h
Are you sure you really wanted this?
There wont be super difficult CTb maps as you know it now, because anything past a certain degree of catchability is now hypered. So anything that is 1.9 plus horizontal is now a hyper in With a dance Number, when before only some of them were. Fixing this is going to drastically reduce the difficulty of maps and its not like you can just bring that difficulty back.
peppy, I'm not sure it should be "fixed" in the sense that all fruits that meet a certain criteria should be hypered. Because if that is the case, it will alter maps that were previously possible without said hypers. I'm sure there will be hate if people start playing their uber pro map and find these hypers that weren't there before, because the algorithm was broken before, and now the fixed result is easier than how people knew it.
I am not a super pro or regularly play CTB. So I cannot speak on behalf of the pro community without the pros assessing their favorite maps and potential changes to the patterns. Really we need people checking difficulties for pattern consistencies and checking how far one should reach for a pattern.
I am not a super pro or regularly play CTB. So I cannot speak on behalf of the pro community without the pros assessing their favorite maps and potential changes to the patterns. Really we need people checking difficulties for pattern consistencies and checking how far one should reach for a pattern.
The idea is that only fruits which were impossible before (or possible only with certain FPS that gives you faster speed than intended) will have hyperdashes added, and all other hyperdashes will stay as they were. If it wasn't important that this was the case, the hyperdash fix would already be complete and have gone live.
Pseudo code (hopefully better than the current one)
For each jump in the 3-note jump situation alone, we can catch the two notes with dash starting from the right side of the first fruit (and ends up hitting the left side of the second fruit). But considering the 3-note jump as a whole, this algorithm should be able to detect that the third fruit is without reach, spawning hyperdash on the second fruit.
EDIT: various fixes and some comments
EDIT2: brief explanation
SPOILER
The point is that we work out the reasonable range the catcher is currently able to reach, and base hyperdash spawning on this.prevFruit.x = 256; // Arbitrary initial values
prevFruit.t = -Inf;
minX = 0; // Leftmost catcher position
maxX = 512; // Rightmost catcher position
prevMove = Normal; // Bit flags, Normal=0
// SpaceLeniency and TimeLeniency may (or may not) depend on CircleSize and OverallDifficulty respectively
// Old (public build) behavior is roughly equivalent to SpaceLeniency = CatcherWidth * 0.1875 and TimeLeniency = 0
// when successive hyperdashes are not encountered with
foreach (fruit in fruits)
{
if (fruit is spinner or something like this)
{
continue;
}
fruitLeft = Max(0, fruit.x - CatcherHalfWidth + SpaceLeniency);
fruitRight = Min(512, fruit.x + CatcherHalfWidth - SpaceLeniency);
minX -= Max(0, fruit.t - prevFruit.t - ((prevMove & LeftFullDash) != 0 ? 0 : TimeLeniency)) * DashSpeed;
maxX += Max(0, fruit.t - prevFruit.t - ((prevMove & RightFullDash) != 0 ? 0 : TimeLeniency)) * DashSpeed;
prevMove = Normal;
if (minX > fruitRight)
{
prevFruit.isHyperDash = true;
prevMove |= LeftFullDash;
minX = fruit.x;
maxX = fruit.x;
}
else if (minX >= fruitLeft)
{
prevMove |= LeftFullDash;
}
else
{
minX = fruitLeft;
}
if (maxX < fruitLeft)
{
prevFruit.isHyperDash = true;
prevMove |= RightFullDash;
minX = fruit.x;
maxX = fruit.x;
}
else if (maxX <= fruitRight)
{
prevMove |= RightFullDash;
}
else
{
maxX = fruitRight;
}
prevFruit = fruit;
}
For each jump in the 3-note jump situation alone, we can catch the two notes with dash starting from the right side of the first fruit (and ends up hitting the left side of the second fruit). But considering the 3-note jump as a whole, this algorithm should be able to detect that the third fruit is without reach, spawning hyperdash on the second fruit.
EDIT: various fixes and some comments
EDIT2: brief explanation
Last Remnant_old
Simply put,
Let's say that there is a FOR loop that goes through all fruits and that we are currently at some fruit $i. Current algorithm will take a look at $i+1 fruit's time and X coordinate and decide whether fruit $i will become hyper or not.
This needs just a small tweak:
Let's say that at past example we concluded that fruit $i doesn't need to be hyper (in other words, jump $i - $i+1 is catchable), now we also need to check fruit $i+2 (and maybe $i+3, although cases with 4 fruits in a row are very rare, I know only 1 map). If we conclude that jump $i - $i+2 isn't catchable, we must make both fruits $i and $i+1 hypers.
Here jumps 1 - 2 and 2 - 3 are catchable, while jump 1 - 3 isn't, which is shown on the next picture.
Let's say that there is a FOR loop that goes through all fruits and that we are currently at some fruit $i. Current algorithm will take a look at $i+1 fruit's time and X coordinate and decide whether fruit $i will become hyper or not.
This needs just a small tweak:
Let's say that at past example we concluded that fruit $i doesn't need to be hyper (in other words, jump $i - $i+1 is catchable), now we also need to check fruit $i+2 (and maybe $i+3, although cases with 4 fruits in a row are very rare, I know only 1 map). If we conclude that jump $i - $i+2 isn't catchable, we must make both fruits $i and $i+1 hypers.
Here jumps 1 - 2 and 2 - 3 are catchable, while jump 1 - 3 isn't, which is shown on the next picture.
That isn't the only case, but it is one of them. I have already allowed for this. Thanks for your input with proposed solutions, but please wait until I make further changes as I already know exactly what is wrong and how I will fix it.
Keep in mind my current fix fixes not only the main case you specify, but others which were mentioned by Millhiore. We are not dealing with a single point of failure here.
Keep in mind my current fix fixes not only the main case you specify, but others which were mentioned by Millhiore. We are not dealing with a single point of failure here.