Some fruits are uncatchable in Catch the Beat due to how hyperdashes are spawned. Here is a map with three scenarios where hyperfruit fail to spawn:

*3-Note Jump
*Spaced Stream (same broken mechanic as 3-Note Jump, but in a more extreme scenario)
*Fast Slider

Yeah.

I noticed this too.
it's a bit sad because a lot insane maps aren't fc-able.. (maybe it's just my lack of skill)
so DT is kind of a mod just for hard maps to me.

ayiku wrote: 3x2h60

I noticed this too.
it's a bit sad because a lot insane maps aren't fc-able.. (maybe it's just my lack of skill)
so DT is kind of a mod just for hard maps to me.

Not always, as long as they don't have hyperdashes they're fcable.

I would appriciate that too because it would make some individuality at scores again and more competition.

DontBrownieMir wrote: 123m35

ayiku wrote: 3x2h60

I noticed this too.
it's a bit sad because a lot insane maps aren't fc-able.. (maybe it's just my lack of skill)
so DT is kind of a mod just for hard maps to me.

Not always, as long as they don't have hyperdashes they're fcable.

I would appriciate that too because it would make some individuality at scores again and more competition.

yes.. but actually most insane maps have hyperdashes, don't they?
or maybe just my choice of maps

Then play the maps with NC instead of DT. Maybe the impossible jumps willl vanish. =D

...
Okay. I don't play DT, so this doesn't affect me anyway. But sure, why not.

Yeah, this is very annoing bug, because there are so many insane maps which would be nice and fun to play with DT, but cannot be fc'd (or is ridiculously hard) because of this bug

Laharl wrote: 3s5k41

Then play the maps with NC instead of DT. Maybe the impossible jumps willl vanish. =D

It's same with NC

making this gimmick called ctb ranked is bringing more work than anyone could have foreseen

This error appears 'cause with DT the plate moves more fast than No node, and supposedly by salad! (Catch the beat tester) the map is still FCable.

as a note, this same bug makes hyperfruit more lenient in half time (hyperfruit appear even when fruits are catchable normally, and they take you under the next fruit early). if you fix that aspect, please make halftime worth more points, as the reduced hyperfruit difficulty is the only reason 95% of players use halftime!

Mercurial wrote: 4y4y4t

This error appears 'cause with DT the plate moves more fast than No node, and supposedly by salad! (Catch the beat tester) the map is still FCable.

The catcher is faster but isn't enough, please play the map that I put as an example and FC it, if you can you win \o/
Whatever, peppy will not say anything?

You need robofingers, but none of the jumps in DT are really impossible, just too hard for humans.

119410501 wrote: o134

You need robofingers, but none of the jumps in DT are really impossible, just too hard for humans.

Why do you said that? Please give me a map that you FC'ed with "impossible" jumps with dt and I will believe in you.
Or FC the map that I give to you, should be easy because it is possible for you ...

119410501 wrote: o134

You need robofingers, but none of the jumps in DT are really impossible, just too hard for humans.

i put a bot to eldnl's map... it caught the edge of the first fruit on the very last pixel and still couldn't catch the next one

MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855

119410501 wrote: o134

You need robofingers, but none of the jumps in DT are really impossible, just too hard for humans.

i put a bot to eldnl's map... it caught the edge of the first fruit on the very last pixel and still couldn't catch the next one

Thanks xD

hacker \o/

eldnl wrote: 2g1ve

119410501 wrote: o134

You need robofingers, but none of the jumps in DT are really impossible, just too hard for humans.

Why do you said that? Please give me a map that you FC'ed with "impossible" jumps with dt and I will believe in you.
Or FC the map that I give to you, should be easy because it is possible for you ...

http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/40460?m=2 <-- For example. Both last HDashes dissapear, but it's still FCable (and I was too dumb to do it orz).
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=59023&m=2 <-- In this case there are some more HDashes that dissapear and kenji was able to do it.

Seems like you didn't read anything ... I'm not saying that every Hdash is impossible with dt, I said most of them ...

First. Double time increases the speed of map by 1,5x, not by 2x.
Second. Ryuuta moves in 2x speed, so... PROBLEM?

EDIT 1: HalfTime decreases speed of map by 0,75x, not by 0,5x.
Ryuuta moves in 0,5x speed so many hyperdashes appear.

This is not a bug of speed. This is a bug of mods naming.

EDIT 2: DoubleTime needs double speed of reaction to catch even unvanished hyperdashes so most of them are uncatchable as player hasn't got enough reaction to it.

Don Omar wrote: 3c644s

First. Double time increases the speed of map by 1,5x, not by 2x.
Second. Ryuuta moves in 2x speed, so... PROBLEM?

EDIT 1: HalfTime decreases speed of map by 0,75x, not by 0,5x.
Ryuuta moves in 0,5x speed so many hyperdashes appear.

This is not a bug of speed. This is a bug of mods naming.

EDIT 2: DoubleTime needs double speed of reaction to catch even unvanished hyperdashes so most of them are uncatchable as player hasn't got enough reaction to it.

Are you an idiot or something? the thing that you pointed out has nothing to do here, the point is that most of the Hdash jumps are impossible, and for now, no one can say otherwise, because you just talk, but let me see if you can do these jumps ....

Calling people stupid doesn't improve your arguement.


However, I have presented these bugs to the dev team (and peppy directly) as a whole multiple times with multiple avenues of examples and multiple suggestions on how to fix it and have seen it thrown instantly into the "put it off forever" pile, so I wouldn't hold my breath on it getting fixed.



Ever.

hey guys, I am the newbie here!! when I want to reply the post here, it failed, why??

Shiirn wrote: 4dp13

Calling people stupid doesn't improve your arguement.


However, I have presented these bugs to the dev team (and peppy directly) as a whole multiple times with multiple avenues of examples and multiple suggestions on how to fix it and have seen it thrown instantly into the "put it off forever" pile, so I wouldn't hold my breath on it getting fixed.



Ever.

I think ctb community don't want to help, and if peppy don't want to fix it this should be closed

Fixing this bug would be not fair for the people who have played maps before when the bug was not fixed, and not fair for the people who quitted.
I think that this bugged DT just gives a chance to people who can't DT on only HD maps, and it's ok.

119410501 wrote: o134

Fixing this bug would be not fair for the people who have played maps before when the bug was not fixed, and not fair for the people who quitted.
I think that this bugged DT just gives a chance to people who can't DT on only HD maps, and it's ok.

taiko got widescreen , and it can be argued that that's no fair for the people who played without the longer lane... it's all part of balance changes to make osu! better!

Leaving bugs is not fair to players which remain in the game and have put up with them for this long. Accusing me of not fixing this bug when it is already marked confirmed is not a wise move. It will be fixed, but has roots which lie deep in algorithms that could affect other elements and need to be thoroughly tested. This will happen, but it may take some time.

peppy wrote: 73101g

Leaving bugs is not fair to players which remain in the game and have put up with them for this long. Accusing me of not fixing this bug when it is already marked confirmed is not a wise move. It will be fixed, but has roots which lie deep in algorithms that could affect other elements and need to be thoroughly tested. This will happen, but it may take some time.

If you read someone post that you don't want to fix it, so, but if you will do, thanks and good luck o7

Don Omar wrote: 3c644s

First. Double time increases the speed of map by 1,5x, not by 2x.
Second. Ryuuta moves in 2x speed, so... PROBLEM?

EDIT 1: HalfTime decreases speed of map by 0,75x, not by 0,5x.
Ryuuta moves in 0,5x speed so many hyperdashes appear.

This is not a bug of speed. This is a bug of mods naming.

EDIT 2: DoubleTime needs double speed of reaction to catch even unvanished hyperdashes so most of them are uncatchable as player hasn't got enough reaction to it.

Clearly you have no idea on what you are talking.

DT makes song faster by 1.5x and ryuuta is also faster by 1.5x, same goes for HT (song speed multiplier is 0.75x and also is ryuuta's). I made application that measured ryuuta's "speed" (distance / time) and results are (nomod: 500 units/s, DT: 750 units/s, HT: 375 units/s) which are proof of my statement.

The opening post's example map where HT catches are impossible seems to have been deleted. Does anyone else have an example I can use to replicate this issue?

here is a re of the map... I can't think of a better, simpler way to illustrate it!

MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855

here is a re of the map... I can't think of a better, simpler way to illustrate it!

Thanks, edited OP.

peppy wrote: 73101g

Leaving bugs is not fair to players which remain in the game and have put up with them for this long. Accusing me of not fixing this bug when it is already marked confirmed is not a wise move. It will be fixed, but has roots which lie deep in algorithms that could affect other elements and need to be thoroughly tested. This will happen, but it may take some time.

Also there are "uncatchable" fruits (without DT) that should have been given hyper-dash, but not with the current algorithm:

Can you make an example map reproducing this?

I have fixed the issues with HT/DT, and pushed out a new test build. I would like people to test this on the test server before making it live to ensure I haven't broken everything, if at all possible.

Nice. I tried test build and it seems to work now. With couple retries I could this map, which was impossible before


http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/144621


Will try some other maps later.

Yup, fixed now, both HT, nomod and DT spawn hypers on same locations which is great but it brings one trouble.

All HT scores would have to be wiped out due to the fact that there are maps which were (are) unFCable with nomod but were FCable with HT (since it spawned more hyperdash jumps).

PS. Example map of map "statementreply" wrote about is this http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=112586&m=2 (combo 403 - 405)

Maps which can't be FC'd should also be fixed. Please point these out.

I'm really happy to see this fixed ^^



Tested some maps with NoMod/HR too: They keep the same number of HDashes after applying HT or DT on them. Songs as Kokou no Sousei (3 pixel-jumps) or The Big Black (non-correct HDash generation due to awkward pattern) would be now unFCable with HT!

Aaaaand I've lurked a bit with some songs too:



I'll try the Kirby Mix Compilation now... That Aurora2 part should be able now.

OK, I will try to give my idea on how to fix them. Lets say that example is same map I pointed out in previous post:

http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=112586&m=2

What current algorithm probably does is checking 2 separate non-littleDroplet objects, and if they are distant enough, first one becomes hyperdash object. At example map, we have 3 "critical" objects, 403, 404 and 405 combo objects (normal fruits). Current algorithm checks 403 and 404, figures out they are not distant enough leading to no hyperdash, same goes for objects 404 and 405. Indeed, jump between 403 and 404 is catchable, and jump between 404 and 405, but what IS uncatchable is jump between 403 and 405 (which would become hyper if we removed 404). So my solution is to check 2 or 3 objects more in advance (if there is no need for hyper between 403 and 404, check for 403 - 405 distance and if it is big enough, create hypers on all 3 hitObjects (in case 403 - 404 distance was enough, 403-405 checking won't be necessary) ).

Not sure I understand still. If possible, make a map with just three objects to demonstrate the bug.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ipn6pdlwcc3zd54

.osu file for map http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/25

Objects 1 and 2 are catchable, so are objects 2 and 3, but 1-3 are not (simple proof is that you can move left to right holding down dash button and you can miss 1st fruit, get 2nd and miss 3rd (as I said in previous post, if there were no 2nd fruit, 1-3 would become hyper jump and fruit no.1 would become hyperdash fruit) ).

Similar example can be made with 4, 5 or more fruits in a row like that.

PS. Basically, as I mentioned in previous post, checking one fruit in advance (after we determine that 1-2 distance is not hyperdash-necessary, check for 1-3 and if it is hyperdash-necessary, make hypers on all 3 objects) should fix this issue in my opinion.

I want to test the maps that had bugs ;_;

Woo good job for the fix = w =)

Now it's time for the 100s freezes \:D\

@ppy if you want some examples of "pixel jumps" there are some maps that has them:

http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=71562&m=2
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=104945&m=2 (Ijou Nashi difficulty)
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/18009
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/s/20789
http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=64558&m=2

And there are a lot more.

Edit: http://ha.ppy.sh/ss/1068

I guess the pixel jump issue can be requested to be solved in another thread...

Where does the term "pixel jump" come from anyway?

It's because you have to be pretty much pixel perfect in your positioning when starting the dash, so that you can catch the next fruit with the far end of the plate (which leaves your positioning off for potential following pixel jumps in the same direction)

It became popular amongst mappers/testers a year ago or so, when many players tried to FC this map w/o HardRock: http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=68431&m=2 (which contains that famous pattern).

It consists on 2 consecutive extreme dashes (1/2 separated notes), which are almost HDashed.

The correct way to play them is positioning the ryuuta at the edge of the 1st fruit and making a sharp movement to get the other 2.

|____________3|
|______2______|
|1____________|
|.\o/...............|

|____________3|
|______2______|
|........\o/........|

|____________3| => CATCHED!
|...............\o/.|

In some cases, it's possible to do it (depends on the BPM, and the distance of the notes in the screen). But when the distance between them is quite close to the HDash, the result of the movement would be something like this:

|____________3|
|______2______|
|1____________|
|.\o/...............|

|____________3|
|______2______|
|.......\o/.........|

|____________3| => MISS!
|.............\o/...|

I hope the graphics are enough explanatory...

Good job Deif

At a code level, the above should still be possible (though hard), which is why I'm asking for a specific test beatmap to be created so I can check.

made a custom one with really tiny
http://puu.sh/14fXc

Also, you should take a look at this one:

http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2

This is somewhat different, we're talking about a reverse slider, not 3 circles.

VelperK wrote: 442m2f

Also, you should take a look at this one:

http://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/p/beatmap?b=27737&m=2

This is somewhat different, we're talking about a reverse slider, not 3 circles.

This is a different bug where if there's a droplet in between two slider ends, it doesn't get hyperdashed. Nothing to do with reverse arrows.

peppy wrote: 73101g

At a code level, the above should still be possible (though hard), which is why I'm asking for a specific test beatmap to be created so I can check.

There are some jumps that are possible, but there are some that not, like the short map above, even with this trick is impossible.

peppy wrote: 73101g

At a code level, the above should still be possible (though hard), which is why I'm asking for a specific test beatmap to be created so I can check.

osu file format v9

[General]
AudioFilename: tutorial.ogg
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: -1
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Normal
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 2
LetterboxInBreaks: 1

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 32

[Metadata]
Title:osu! tutorial
Artist:Peter Lambert
Creator:peppy
Version:CTB Test
Source:
Tags:

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:7
CircleSize:5
OverallDifficulty:7
ApproachRate:7
SliderMultiplier:2.56
SliderTickRate:4

[Events]
//Background and Video events
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 ()
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples
//Background Colour Transformations
3,100,163,162,255

[TimingPoints]
255,374.123148869836,4,1,0,100,1,0
4650,-50,4,1,0,100,0,0


[HitObjects]
112,192,1751,1,0
256,192,1845,1,0
400,192,1938,1,0
496,192,3247,5,0
256,192,3435,1,0
16,192,3622,1,0
0,192,4744,6,0,B|512:192,1,512

I also provided example in my previous post and basically explained what can be done to fix this: p/1779211

I am going to leave this second issue until the first has been made public and confirmed as resolved, as I'd rather not create problems on top of problems.

eldnl wrote: 2g1ve

peppy wrote: 73101g

At a code level, the above should still be possible (though hard), which is why I'm asking for a specific test beatmap to be created so I can check.

There are some jumps that are possible, but there are some that not, like the short map above, even with this trick is impossible.

OMG

peppy wrote: 73101g

I am going to leave this second issue until the first has been made public and confirmed as resolved, as I'd rather not create problems on top of problems.

I think the DT bug was succesfully resolved IMHO, I tried different maps and they all play very well! But I don't have problems with waiting a bit longer either, in case there is a little glitch or something

DT is fixed and will go live soon. I'm talking about the other yet-to-be-confirmed bug mentioned in the last few posts.

peppy wrote: 73101g

DT is fixed and will go live soon. I'm talking about the other yet-to-be-confirmed bug mentioned in the last few posts.

We should create another thread for the other bugs?

Nah, it's fine here for now.

eldnl wrote: 2g1ve

There are two problems with hyperdashes and doubletime ...

- First off, when a song have hyperdashes without mods, some of them dissapear when you play with doubletime, and most of them are uncatchable.
- In a second place we have the hyperdashes even when you play with dt, most of them are uncatchable too.

I have an example, please play this map with doubletime: http://puu.sh/13QUy

As you can see the first jump doesn't have hyperdash and is perfectly catchable, in the second jump we had an hyperdash which dissapeared with the doubletime, but it is still catchable; the third jump had an hyperdash too, but it isn't catchable with doubletime, and in the last jump we have an hyperdash even with dt, which is impossible to catch ...

discuss please.

lol

Bumping because VelperK just made a new discovery.



Apparently, playing with vsync on at 60 FPS makes the fruits stutter on some frames, causing them to not fall, yet still letting the catcher move forward. This makes previously impossible jumps like the one on this map just barely possible, but only if you're not playing with 120 FPS or more!

^

do you mean like rainbow tylenol jump?

Yes, exactly. It was already possible, but you have to be pixel perfect - apparently playing with 60 FPS gives you a few milliseconds of leeway.

MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855

Yes, exactly. It was already possible, but you have to be pixel perfect - apparently playing with 60 FPS gives you a few milliseconds of leeway.

nope, that shit about miliseconds or frames or whatever does not exist, that jump is practically uncatchable with 120fps or more because the catcher stops in the next fruit, and because of that the next fruit is uncatchable. . . when you play with 60fps the catcher doesn't stop in the next fruit and keep going to the other fruit, not sure if you can understand this xD

Oh, so you did do the jump with 60 fps... that explains it then! 60 fps makes pixeljumps catchable after all...

MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855

Oh, so you did do the jump with 60 fps... that explains it then! 60 fps makes pixeljumps catchable after all...

nope ://

Well okay, it makes some catchable, not all. The watashi map is literally impossible with 120 FPS, but it's doable with 60 FPS. I'm sure there's some pixeljumps that can't be caught anyway, and definitely really fast sliders can't!

I did the watashi map, is not that easy but it's possible just because there is a lag that let you catch the last note, really weird, probably peppy did something to this? o.o



Edit:

that lag is not normal

Double time

Hardrock


Hardrock Double time!

ALL the fucking mods!

It's been confirmed that this map's jump is sometimes catchable due to some weird song start lag... Supposedly it wouldn't happen if you placed the notes ~5 seconds after the song starts, but I haven't tested that.

EDIT: also hardrock makes hyperdashes appear, so it doesn't count

MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855

It's been confirmed that this map's jump is sometimes catchable due to some weird song start lag... Supposedly it wouldn't happen if you placed the notes ~5 seconds after the song starts, but I haven't tested that.

EDIT: also hardrock makes hyperdashes appear, so it doesn't count

Does double time count? You do get a high velocity than normal.

Manchineel wrote: 3m5u6f

MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855

It's been confirmed that this map's jump is sometimes catchable due to some weird song start lag... Supposedly it wouldn't happen if you placed the notes ~5 seconds after the song starts, but I haven't tested that.

EDIT: also hardrock makes hyperdashes appear, so it doesn't count

Does double time count? You do get a high velocity than normal.

that's why it doesn't count either

that's why it doesn't count either

Then we have a solution! use Hardrock or double time for the problem.
More score, more people happy. Also you'll gain more skill this way!
Genius.

Manchineel wrote: 3m5u6f

that's why it doesn't count either

Then we have a solution! use Hardrock or double time for the problem.
More score, more people happy. Also you'll gain more skill this way!
Genius.

you retrograd person, stop trolling these kind of threads and gtfo.
you did the same with the ctb droplets thingy topic.

actually running on vsync 60fps makes my ryuuta move faster than it should be (or its just me) but i tried doing it on some pixel jump and i apparently caught that pixel jump on rainbow tylenol when i pause and switched from unlimited to 60fps. though playing on it makes ryuuta control hard as fuck

Seph wrote: 6k1228

actually running on vsync 60fps makes my ryuuta move faster than it should be (or its just me) but i tried doing it on some pixel jump and i apparently caught that pixel jump on rainbow tylenol when i pause and switched from unlimited to 60fps. though playing on it makes ryuuta control hard as fuck

60fps is not faster, there is something different with the hyperdash I think.

I'm bumping this. I'd really like to see it fixed since CtB is the most broken osu! mode as of now.

By the way, here's one simple example of an impossible jump: http://puu.sh/1jxet

Here is an updated version of the Watashi map with three scenarios where hyperfruit fail to spawn:

*3-Note Jump
*Spaced Stream (same broken mechanic as 3-Note Jump, but in a more extreme scenario)
*Fast Slider

Note that the 3-Note Jump is catchable under some strange lag-based circumstances, but the others are definitely not (and the 3-Note Jump can't be caught without lag either.) Also included is a tick rate 2 version of Fast Slider, to show that hyperfruits spawn correctly when there are no small droplets involved.

peppy has something to say here? if you still don't understand the problem I could explain it in a better way.

It has been confirmed so is already confirmed. You need to wait until I get a chance to look at this (relatively low-priority) bug.

Speaking of which, the doubletime bug was resolved long ago, so I'll change the topic name (unless someone objects)

lol x2

Stop spamming.

MillhioreF wrote: 2k1855

Speaking of which, the doubletime bug was resolved long ago, so I'll change the topic name (unless someone objects)

Thank you.

Why is this low priority?, is the most visited thread, so most people want this, don't you? well, we just need to wait :z

I think it's high-priority myself, but peppy disagrees (see his most recent post) and his opinion vetos mine

This isn't high-priority because it's been a problem with CTB since CTB was a game. If it wasn't high priority then, it's not just going to become a focal point now. Old bugs are low priority compared to new bugs and trust me there are a lot of new bugs that can and should be fixed before this bug which everyone is already used to gets fixed.

One can thing of this from an accessibility standpoint. How many players does this bug affect compared to other bugs? There aren't that many "impossible" CTB maps, and there are far less players who can play these CTB maps anyways. Fixing this would only please a small group of players, while gamewide bugs/ bugs affecting wider ranges of people take higher priority.

Also this will require peppy to just drop everything he's doing and focus on nothing but this bug for a whole development day.