Naxess: sup
UndeadCapulet: o/
Naxess: Alright so I don't believe the slider to be acceptable in it's current state
Naxess: I do understand that you'd like to keep it, but it just misses out on way too many aspects as is
Naxess: It does work as contrast to other parts, but in this case it's a bit extreme, to the point where the only difference between it and a break is basically that you're holding down a button
Naxess: What do you think?
UndeadCapulet: i can understand where you're coming from, but there are other differences as well
UndeadCapulet: (btw sorry for slow responses, im rly slow typer/trying to word things well is hard)
Naxess: dw lol
UndeadCapulet: during a break hp drain stops, bg brightens, and the player can freely move the cursor how they please, even completely lifting their hand from the mouse/tablet
UndeadCapulet: it's a moment of relaxation
UndeadCapulet: my slider makes the player keep holding down a button and keep their cursor bound to the sliderbody, to try to work like a moment of tension
UndeadCapulet: and i think you read this? but its not my idea alone, i got it from another map that happened to have the same musical requirements
UndeadCapulet: (the long, constant background noise during the least intense part of the song to create tension before the last kiai)
Naxess: I see where you're coming from, but the song isn't just a really long held note going over these sections, it's background vocals, chorals, which in turn have moments of pause. Places where the tension is lifted. That's where the distinctions happen for the most part.
UndeadCapulet: ACTION is listening to [https://osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org/b/722224 Sawai Miku - Colorful. (Asterisk DnB Remix)]
UndeadCapulet: it was this map, when it was first ed it had a long slow slider like mine
Naxess: For example, if you listen right before 04:07:040 - , and then listen to that beat, you'll notice the vocals gain in strength
UndeadCapulet: it was removed for hitsounding unrankability issues
UndeadCapulet: and if you check disqus comments people were sad about it
UndeadCapulet: it was placed from 03:33:117 - to 03:42:546 -
UndeadCapulet: or so
UndeadCapulet: i understand that there's other stuff going on in the song at that point, but i think drawing attention to those parts detracts from the map as a whole
Naxess: In what way?
UndeadCapulet: well, gonna try to not repeat myself but
UndeadCapulet: this part is technically quieter and less intense than any other point in the song
UndeadCapulet: but its super emotionally dense, it's the chorus vocals again, mika's about to cry, etc.
UndeadCapulet: and this point in the song is building up a ton of tension that will be released in the kiai
UndeadCapulet: i think breaking up this slider at all won't fit because it removes that feeling of tension
Naxess: Even while crying you need to breathe and release the tension though, if you want to put it that way.
Naxess: I mean even split up it will still build up towards kiai due to the difference in density, right?
UndeadCapulet: mm, i think any change in clicking, even 2 sliders vs 1, draws too much attention to a certain beat, even though this part of the song is so connected-feeling, and the release ruins the building of tension
UndeadCapulet: idk, i doubt i'll be able to convince you differently :x
UndeadCapulet: the best hope i can do is that, this is just a matter of opinion, and there are a bunch of people on both sides
UndeadCapulet: which is why i bring up things like the colorful map
Naxess: So basically you want to build tension, but that isn't possible any other way... that's the reasoning Bonsai mentioned hm hm
UndeadCapulet: mhm
Naxess: Even as I was making the first post, I knew that tension would be the dilemma faced here. The reason why I still made the post, regardless of knowing all this, is because said method of building tension is neither warranted by the song, nor reflective of it in gameplay. The song goes on with multiple distinctions throughout this section and plays an active role, not an idle one which solely holding down a button would suggest. This is where the dilemma happens. It's trading precise accentuation for overall accentuation, basically spreading out one prcinple throughout a large area. It's like undermapping in a way, but to an extreme degree where literally a single click corresponds to a whole section of a song. A time in which the player will solely hold down a button and rest, repositioning their hand properly and waiting for the 20 seconds to , rather than feeling strain or tension. So in conclusion, while I see your point, the method used misses more of the song than it reflects, and would ultimately be more determinental to gameplay and relevance to the song as a whole than anything.
UndeadCapulet: http://puu.sh/vK0oF/9dd116dcd6.jpg
UndeadCapulet: :x
Naxess: It probably truncated didn't it
UndeadCapulet: yeah that's what i was trying to show w/ the ss
Naxess: So basically the dilemma we're facing is
Naxess: Overall accentuation vs precise accentuation
UndeadCapulet: yep
UndeadCapulet: both ways are valid to me, but i prefer the one i've used
UndeadCapulet: and i guess you think only one is valid?
Naxess: It's undermapped to such an extreme degree that literally just one button s for a whole section
Naxess: And when listening to the song, there's much more going on
Naxess: I mean I sort of get where you're coming from with the tension, but the player will basically just hold down the key while repositioning and restig their hand
Naxess: rather than feeling strain or tension
Naxess: and in the end, it would ultimately be more determinental to the gameplay and the relevance to the song than anything else
Naxess: The importance to note in the dilemma is that it's not just a choice
Naxess: It's not just one or both are right
Naxess: There's a balance to be struck
Naxess: And I think we're edging a bit too far towards one side of that balance, especially when considering what the song has to offer
Naxess: Does this make sense?
UndeadCapulet: sorta, tho i always tend towards the extreme bc thats what i learned from all my fav mappers :P
Naxess: Just make sure not to go too extreme like this lol
UndeadCapulet: no, extremes always :v
UndeadCapulet: well, regardless of outcome, thanks for y'know
UndeadCapulet: actually discussing and stuff
Naxess: ye np np
UndeadCapulet: i appreciate it :3
UndeadCapulet: i do think there's also some weight to the fact that 5 bn's have pushed this forward leans to my favor, but i know that's not a strong argument :P
UndeadCapulet: if you could, a final post in the thread would be great
UndeadCapulet: just so there isn't like a
UndeadCapulet: "uh is this veto'd or not" thing like w/ earlier
Naxess: Ye I'll post and sum up stuff
UndeadCapulet: thanks~
.
