Understanding The Introduction
Hello,

For those who do not know me I am a LONG time lurker of the OT! forums, only posting once in a blue-moon and my threads don't get much traction, which is fine.

In the past couple of weeks I have seen the air change around how denizen(ship) can be handled. I would also like to expand what parliament does/can do.

The proposal is simple: open up applications for denizenship, the elected president then creates a council (either through elections, much like president is), if a council is not elected then it comes down to the Royal OT! to elect those they believe would be fitting of the position.

• Understanding The President

1. President will elect a council.
2. The number of council may not exceed 5.
   Titles of the council may be their own, or they can be chosen.
3. Once the council is picked/elected (president may hold elections/application for council if they are not decided on their council), they will hold their position until the normal presidency term is over. This position can be taken away through being exiled or if Royal OT! deems them to be of bad descent.
   
   
   Understanding The Council
4. Council is there to provide insight, council (heh), and perform any tasks that the president may need/want to get done.
5. The council, in its first iterations, may be confusing and may not seem like a good option; however, this can be used for other roles such as going for presidency or becoming a leader of a political party. This can also be advantageous for treading the waters to see if you would like to be president and deal with the presidential actions, or if youd like to continue to stay a regular denizen/council-den
   
   
   Understanding Them Together
6. The council and the president will evaluate the applications for denizenship as a body and will then take it up to our Holy One: Abraker. If the council and president believe the should be a denizen and is not a denizen, they may plead their case as to why they should be a denizen.
7. The president and council will be in charge of creating the application. Note: This application MUST be presented to Abraker for due diligence.
8. Just to clear the air. Parliament and President DO NOT DECIDE WHETHER S BECOME DENIZENS. IT IS SIMPLY ANOTHER WAY FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BECOME DENIZEN TO GET THEIR VOICES HEARD.

Understanding The Conclusion

In conclusion, this can obviously be discussed, but I would like there to be a more democratic way for denizenship to be handled. Having to be here and make quality post can sometimes be a bit odd when you may have a bunch of quality replies but not a lot of posts.

** If there is anything put in the replies about changing certain aspects to the roles/proposal I will add it to the list, after it receives a good amount of .

Basically council works as GMT?

Where's the "Understanding" selection in the poll? This seems rigged already. 😕

You are giving too much power to presidency. This can really go wrong by a political team buying votes by offering people a seat on council.

"Hey, I have 1 vote and you guys give me 5 votes, So I can win the election, in return I will elect you as an council memeber"

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

You are giving too much power to presidency. This can really go wrong by a political team buying votes by offering people a seat on council.

"Hey, I have 1 vote and you guys give me 5 votes, So I can win the election, in return I will elect you as an council memeber"

A quick work around to this is that all council are elected just like president. But it is a lot to plan 1 election, let alone 2-4 more. So I left it that the president may elect them or make a poll.

JustABeginner wrote: 1i3411

Basically council works as GMT?

No? They don't do anything but help the president in their endeavors and evaluate applications for denizenship. If the application is good or they (the council) think they deserve denizenship then they can take it up with abraker/royal OT, rather than wait for them to be noticed.

If you dont know, there is already a system like this in OT!, its called "parliament". Parliament election happens after 6month of president election. People vote for who they wanna elect and top 4 member gets elected.

this doesn't fix any problems with denizenship, the problem is that it is a meaningless title, with highly subjective requirements, that does nothing other than to create drama

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

If you dont know, there is already a system like this in OT!, its called "parliament". Parliament election happens after 6month of president election. People vote for who they wanna elect and top 4 member gets elected.

Yes. This is true, this is the parliament. Though, I guess the council and parliament are the same just expanding their powers. I did not use the right nomenclature, but yes.

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

this doesn't fix any problems with denizenship, the problem is that it is a meaningless title, with highly subjective requirements, that does nothing other than to create drama

Making the title more dilute, as in giving more people the title should help with it being dramatic and make feeling of wanting it a little more less of a superiority thing or create drama.

Blushing wrote: 1q5s13

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

this doesn't fix any problems with denizenship, the problem is that it is a meaningless title, with highly subjective requirements, that does nothing other than to create drama

Making the title more dilute, as in giving more people the title should help with it being dramatic and make feeling of wanting it a little more less of a superiority thing or create drama.

then just reduce the wait time to like 3 months again, no need to all of this

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

Blushing wrote: 1q5s13

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

this doesn't fix any problems with denizenship, the problem is that it is a meaningless title, with highly subjective requirements, that does nothing other than to create drama

Making the title more dilute, as in giving more people the title should help with it being dramatic and make feeling of wanting it a little more less of a superiority thing or create drama.

then just reduce the wait time to like 3 months again, no need to all of this

neh, The only reason I like the "denizen" title is because you wasted 8months for meaningless title. Its shows how free you are

Bring back the monarchy.

Trying to change the Denizenship system usually ends in arguments, and always ends in failure.

Denizenship is great the way it is, why change?

-Remi wrote: 1r561k

Trying to change the Denizenship system usually ends in arguments, and always ends in failure.

Denizenship is great the way it is, why change?

dont think it's good on the current state tbh

What if we just resort to anarchy whats the worst that can happen?

I wonder how many times we've had this argument already...

BlueChinchompa wrote: 584133

What if we just resort to anarchy whats the worst that can happen?

literally nothing, the gov does nothing lmao

I ain't reading allat

Stomiks wrote: 65184i

I wonder how many times we've had this argument already...

not being offensive or something, perhaps this is just me being uninterested in the OT!Politics by nature but yes, this does happen once in a while and i guess it's getting more and more often.

Tbh, perhaps it does need a change, but the problem is that every time someone brings this topic up there's a high chance there's gonna be an argument, thus i became lazy reading the threads related to it because it's just full of arguments, and i'm sorry if whatever i said here is not up to date with the current situation.

Perhaps try talking to some GMTs, that's just my idea though.

Yeah you guys always argue regarding denizenship. Unless a formal discussion is held with the gov and a decision is finally made then this will never end.

-Remi wrote: 1r561k

Trying to change the Denizenship system usually ends in arguments, and always ends in failure.

Denizenship is great the way it is, why change?

can confirm.


blushing, if you have an idea you find interesting enough, share it with the president himself, he's pretty accessible and will listen to you.

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

BlueChinchompa wrote: 584133

What if we just resort to anarchy whats the worst that can happen?

literally nothing, the gov does nothing lmao

cool rp shut up

[ Rynn ] wrote: 5q556

Stomiks wrote: 65184i

I wonder how many times we've had this argument already...

not being offensive or something, perhaps this is just me being uninterested in the OT!Politics by nature but yes, this does happen once in a while and i guess it's getting more and more often.

Tbh, perhaps it does need a change, but the problem is that every time someone brings this topic up there's a high chance there's gonna be an argument, thus i became lazy reading the threads related to it because it's just full of arguments, and i'm sorry if whatever i said here is not up to date with the current situation.

Perhaps try talking to some GMTs, that's just my idea though.

it's also the most interesting, because it is the only topic, like, previvous president didn't really do anything more than change denizenship and eblf hasn't really done anything yet so lmao

tbh I think the best way to go about this is either to only give denizenships after people quit or to delete denizenship as a whole, if you want to keep denizenship to keep ot history sure, just give them after people quit, that will literally fix 80% of the problems

-

Polyspora wrote: 203v4t

blushing, if you have an idea you find interesting enough, share it with the president himself, he's pretty accessible and will listen to you.

This. Preferably through my discord

I'm too straight to be a denizen.

octowave wrote: 196a16

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

BlueChinchompa wrote: 584133

What if we just resort to anarchy whats the worst that can happen?

literally nothing, the gov does nothing lmao

trueee, literally the only thing i've seen the government do is denizen-related stuff, and any rp that can come from it isn't any more special than what people do outside it

personally, i couldn't care less about denizenship at this point. i did at some point, but now i'm seeing how dumb it was to let some dumb hierarchy affect how i view myself

Yeah it's a bad idea to put so much value on Denizenship. There's like a grand total of 30 people who post here.

I want to leave the parliament already and leave OT altogether

-Remi wrote: 1r561k

Stuff

TL;DR: No dms because this affects all OT dwellers, it’s not indicative of a democracy and what presidency mean. I want OT to thrive on its own and to not have to be watched over by GMT for its survival and arguments for staying.

Tbf, this is the only forum that actively has this issue of hierarchy. In every other sub forum you have “”””authority”””” based on your group(s) and your post count (which is probably more harmful than good)

My thought is that as a president, and subsequently a parliament, I have seen nothing being done to either help fix this hierarchy issue or even get rid of it altogether.

My standpoint on it is that it is a meaningless title, if I wanted to I could easily declare myself a denizen and no one can stop me from doing that; however, I could also say I am the next “”messiah”” (so-to-speak) and no one can say anything against me.

Those who have this hierarchy set into their mind are probably thinking that they worked hard and the title has meaning because of their hard work with quality posts.

What I am just trying to do is actually have the government do something. If the government can prove self-sustainment it makes keeping OT around a lot more of an argument rather than just keeping it around because it gives an outlet to those who want to shitpost.

Id like to keep OT around for the memories and because, ultimately, it is a necessary forum for those who want to post and have fun on the forums rather than always be serious and what not.

If the council/parliament deems that a gmt would need to be on it to confirm it’s station then so be it, that can be done and decided on the internal server and amongst the 3 gmt that actively peruse the sub forum.

Also, I don’t think me going to a dm and closed environment to talk about the something that affects the entirety of OT is wise, nor would it be indicative of “president” and parliament where everyone should have reap resent action (rp) wise.

ShinRun wrote: 2y3b2c

I want to leave the parliament already and leave OT altogether

i have been thinking about leaving ot as well, most of gen 8’s gone anyways. Starting next month im gonna be extra busy getting the Visa and moving some of the less important shit to Japan, just generally getting ready to move next year

ShinRun wrote: 2y3b2c

I want to leave the parliament already and leave OT altogether

fair

Blushing wrote: 1q5s13

-Remi wrote: 1r561k

Stuff

TL;DR: No dms because this affects all OT dwellers, it’s not indicative of a democracy and what presidency mean. I want OT to thrive on its own and to not have to be watched over by GMT for its survival and arguments for staying.

Tbf, this is the only forum that actively has this issue of hierarchy. In every other sub forum you have “”””authority”””” based on your group(s) and your post count (which is probably more harmful than good)

My thought is that as a president, and subsequently a parliament, I have seen nothing being done to either help fix this hierarchy issue or even get rid of it altogether.

My standpoint on it is that it is a meaningless title, if I wanted to I could easily declare myself a denizen and no one can stop me from doing that; however, I could also say I am the next “”messiah”” (so-to-speak) and no one can say anything against me.

Those who have this hierarchy set into their mind are probably thinking that they worked hard and the title has meaning because of their hard work with quality posts.

What I am just trying to do is actually have the government do something. If the government can prove self-sustainment it makes keeping OT around a lot more of an argument rather than just keeping it around because it gives an outlet to those who want to shitpost.

Id like to keep OT around for the memories and because, ultimately, it is a necessary forum for those who want to post and have fun on the forums rather than always be serious and what not.

If the council/parliament deems that a gmt would need to be on it to confirm it’s station then so be it, that can be done and decided on the internal server and amongst the 3 gmt that actively peruse the sub forum.

Also, I don’t think me going to a dm and closed environment to talk about the something that affects the entirety of OT is wise, nor would it be indicative of “president” and parliament where everyone should have reap resent action (rp) wise.

I understand that viewpoint, but I dont think that moderation and similar are a problem rn, I feel this would only have to be implemented as a last resort if like we were again in the situation where we almost lost all gmts, but I dont think this is currently the way to go, it adds way too many steps in the process of doing anything, and might make OT worse in the meanwhile until that scenario happens

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

Theres a post requirement?

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

I still think best idea is to only give denizen to people after they quit ot, like, generation shift would be a lot more clear, there would not be drama of ohhhhh this person deserves denizen rn or ohhhhh there hasn't been a denizen in x ammount of time!! since you cant opt in to denizen in the same way you kinda have to do it now

it would make it very clear who is a denizen and who not, like, if someone quits after 4 years on ot, it's clear they were a denizen, that removes also the fear of people quitting after they become denizen, it still would be a little bit akward with people who are maybe exactly 6 months on ot, but I think this is overall an improvement


either that or remove denizen entirely, I dont think any of the other proposals fix any of these problems, just makes it easier or harder to someone to qualify to denizen without actually fixing the fundamental issues

-Remi wrote: 1r561k

octowave wrote: 196a16

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

BlueChinchompa wrote: 584133

What if we just resort to anarchy whats the worst that can happen?

literally nothing, the gov does nothing lmao

trueee, literally the only thing i've seen the government do is denizen-related stuff, and any rp that can come from it isn't any more special than what people do outside it

personally, i couldn't care less about denizenship at this point. i did at some point, but now i'm seeing how dumb it was to let some dumb hierarchy affect how i view myself

Yeah it's a bad idea to put so much value on Denizenship. There's like a grand total of 30 people who post here.

agreed, i have no interest in ot politics or denizenship at all, especially since theres already so much politics going on irl which is complicated enough

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

I still think best idea is to only give denizen to people after they quit ot, like, generation shift would be a lot more clear, there would not be drama of ohhhhh this person deserves denizen rn or ohhhhh there hasn't been a denizen in x ammount of time!! since you cant opt in to denizen in the same way you kinda have to do it now

it would make it very clear who is a denizen and who not, like, if someone quits after 4 years on ot, it's clear they were a denizen, that removes also the fear of people quitting after they become denizen, it still would be a little bit akward with people who are maybe exactly 6 months on ot, but I think this is overall an improvement

That would make the denizen title even more worthless than it is.
Like, it would be the equivalent of giving citizenship to a person after they die.

Reyalp51 wrote: 6m1t2o

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

Theres a post requirement?

There was, before the change of time.

Also yes we need a new parliament election soon. 2 of the 3 parliament are hardly active right now, plus, if the parliament is filled with people that actually want a change, it would be great imo.

And also, I think most of you are overthinking the concept and process of denizenship.

eblf2013 wrote: 3l2l1q

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

I still think best idea is to only give denizen to people after they quit ot, like, generation shift would be a lot more clear, there would not be drama of ohhhhh this person deserves denizen rn or ohhhhh there hasn't been a denizen in x ammount of time!! since you cant opt in to denizen in the same way you kinda have to do it now

it would make it very clear who is a denizen and who not, like, if someone quits after 4 years on ot, it's clear they were a denizen, that removes also the fear of people quitting after they become denizen, it still would be a little bit akward with people who are maybe exactly 6 months on ot, but I think this is overall an improvement

That would make the denizen title even more worthless than it is.
Like, it would be the equivalent of giving citizenship to a person after they die.

as you said, denizenship currently is worthless, nothing requires it, and you gain nothing from it, currently, it only stands as a way to put people in generations, and have a little of ot history that way, denizenship currently it's not a citizenship, it's more like adding your name to a history book, so, I feel we should embrace that and do that, the title woudl not devaulate, since the use is still the exact same, it only removes drama and complications

Parliament should make it so that a gay sex session with me is required to become denizen

ShinRun wrote: 2y3b2c

Parliament should make it so that a gay sex session with me is required to become denizen

I get dibs

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

eblf2013 wrote: 3l2l1q

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

I still think best idea is to only give denizen to people after they quit ot, like, generation shift would be a lot more clear, there would not be drama of ohhhhh this person deserves denizen rn or ohhhhh there hasn't been a denizen in x ammount of time!! since you cant opt in to denizen in the same way you kinda have to do it now

it would make it very clear who is a denizen and who not, like, if someone quits after 4 years on ot, it's clear they were a denizen, that removes also the fear of people quitting after they become denizen, it still would be a little bit akward with people who are maybe exactly 6 months on ot, but I think this is overall an improvement

That would make the denizen title even more worthless than it is.
Like, it would be the equivalent of giving citizenship to a person after they die.

as you said, denizenship currently is worthless, nothing requires it, and you gain nothing from it, currently, it only stands as a way to put people in generations, and have a little of ot history that way, denizenship currently it's not a citizenship, it's more like adding your name to a history book, so, I feel we should embrace that and do that, the title woudl not devaulate, since the use is still the exact same, it only removes drama and complications

Hmmmmm... I said it's worthless but actually it has some... well utility.

You can get elected into parliament or president and you can vote in said elections. Yeah, it isn't much but the govt as is cannot exist without something like denizenship. So, if the denizenship system were to be revoked, the government would be revoked as well.

ShinRun wrote: 2y3b2c

Parliament should make it so that a gay sex session with me is required to become denizen

Homosexual.

eblf2013 wrote: 3l2l1q

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

eblf2013 wrote: 3l2l1q

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I think the best fix will be to just shorten the time requirement to 6 or 5months and increase the Post requirement to higher.

also when the next parliament election? Already been 13months since the last parliament election

I still think best idea is to only give denizen to people after they quit ot, like, generation shift would be a lot more clear, there would not be drama of ohhhhh this person deserves denizen rn or ohhhhh there hasn't been a denizen in x ammount of time!! since you cant opt in to denizen in the same way you kinda have to do it now

it would make it very clear who is a denizen and who not, like, if someone quits after 4 years on ot, it's clear they were a denizen, that removes also the fear of people quitting after they become denizen, it still would be a little bit akward with people who are maybe exactly 6 months on ot, but I think this is overall an improvement

That would make the denizen title even more worthless than it is.
Like, it would be the equivalent of giving citizenship to a person after they die.

as you said, denizenship currently is worthless, nothing requires it, and you gain nothing from it, currently, it only stands as a way to put people in generations, and have a little of ot history that way, denizenship currently it's not a citizenship, it's more like adding your name to a history book, so, I feel we should embrace that and do that, the title woudl not devaulate, since the use is still the exact same, it only removes drama and complications

Hmmmmm... I said it's worthless but actually it has some... well utility.

You can get elected into parliament or president and you can vote in said elections. Yeah, it isn't much but the govt as is cannot exist without something like denizenship. So, if the denizenship system were to be revoked, the government would be revoked as well.

so far, the only purpouse that denizen has is to vote in the elections, which mainly chooses a person that has the power to edit the denizen system in some form and does RP

like, the only purpouse that denizen has is to be able to change how denizen works, that's not an use for denizen

ShinRun wrote: 2y3b2c

Parliament should make it so that a gay sex session with me is required to become denizen

Again, too straight to be a denizen.

Blushing wrote: 1q5s13

Understanding Them Together The council and the president will evaluate the applications for denizenship as a body and will then take it up to our Holy One: Abraker. If the council and president believe the should be a denizen and is not a denizen, they may plead their case as to why they should be a denizen. The president and council will be in charge of creating the application. Note: This application MUST be presented to Abraker for due diligence.

'Tis a prophesy from voices from beyond the end and after the beyond. Betray and abandon lurks among the shadows where the rays of light you call "the era" no longer shines. Forgone will be the crutches foolish masses depend on to propel their story forward. Forge your own steps forward to walk on waters covering the abyss or sink deep into the final death of Valhalla

I agree with @Eblf that it will make it worthless if quitting is a requirement

@patatitta denizen is not as worthless as you think. Denizenship is very helpful to take good decision for future of OT! It works like a voting card where you can vote for a decision like Election. Other than election I don't think it really Nessecary to have it

Anarchy lertzgoooo

Oof never knew that ots getting too political there

Aireunaeus wrote: x6j51

Oof never knew that ots getting too political there

still better than irl

z0z wrote: z232j

Aireunaeus wrote: x6j51

Oof never knew that ots getting too political there

still better than irl

True though

How do I see denizenship


Its a title which means you are a part of this community and No, just interacting with the community for a day or two will not make you the part of the community. I dont see enough problem to actually remove it fully but the fix of the problem we have is to lower down the requirement since bruh 8months is a lot. Lowering it down will let more people be "title" part of this community and make the title less worse.


The thing with @Patatitta solution is that firstly it gonna become worthless and it gonna make people quit more. quitting OT! is good but you know what I meant. Another problem will arise is that who have right to vote for election. Yeah govt can only change things about denizen but govt RP is a part of OT! Now so I dont think its good to remove that.

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I agree with @Eblf that it will make it worthless if quitting is a requirement

@patatitta denizen is not as worthless as you think. Denizenship is very helpful to take good decision for future of OT! It works like a voting card where you can vote for a decision like Election. Other than election I don't think it really Nessecary to have it

yeah but like, in the past 2 years it has been completely useless, if teh use of it is so seconday that we can go 2 years without it, we should just get rid of it

Patatitta wrote: 4y1w

Manishh wrote: 4f3g50

I agree with @Eblf that it will make it worthless if quitting is a requirement

@patatitta denizen is not as worthless as you think. Denizenship is very helpful to take good decision for future of OT! It works like a voting card where you can vote for a decision like Election. Other than election I don't think it really Nessecary to have it

yeah but like, in the past 2 years it has been completely useless, if teh use of it is so seconday that we can go 2 years without it, we should just get rid of it

hey im not gonna be able to abuse my senpai perms on Stomiks if it were to be removed