{"content":"\n \n \n Shohei Ohtani\n <\/span>\n \n \n \n \n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Shohei Ohtani<\/span>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:37:26+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n UndeadCapulet wrote:<\/h4>4:30 sets have been falling more and more out of favour over the years, and now people are even starting to use r3 music box extensions to avoid making them, i think it's time to address the issue with current spread rules.<\/blockquote>This is just fucking stupid that people are doing this lmao. Like it's rankable I guess but man this is just insanely silly. There was sort of something brought up in the other discussion about meme maps where like technically yes you can rank silly stuff but at some point you just sort of lose respect for yourself.4:30 sets require triple the workload of tvsize sets and quadruple the workload of marathons for both the set host and any bn checking them. it's no surprise they've fallen out of favour. longer sets are also generally less played and less popular, especially among newer players, so requiring a full set for 4:30 songs is impractical for mappers\/modders and excessive for players since those lowdiff will mostly go unplayed.<\/blockquote>True. It's been problematic to rank 4 minute maps for WAY longer than now. Even this map was a bitch to get modded, https:\/\/osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org\/b\/259187<\/a> and it eventually sort of just graved because people just did not want to spend the time looking at a 4 minute long map. The map itself was actually sort of created as pushback towards the fact that people only wanted to map TV size maps and such (a sentiment that has changed since I mapped this 5 years ago).but ofc just changing marathon length min requirements to 4min or 4:30 wouldn't rly fix the main issue of people extending mp3s to avoid full sets. so instead i think we should have a more dynamic spread system.<\/blockquote>Seems about right. Loctav would often pull out the slippery slope thing whenever people would get mad about spread. It's kind of why 4:55 maps couldn't get approved, because \"oh man you're so dumb and fat soon 4:50 maps are going to get ranked and soon we will have no easy diffs\"(Skipping the paragraph with the actual system since I already talked about that).this would greatly reduced workload for mappers and modders, cater longer maps to the players actually interested in playing them, and help reduce a lot of the mp3 extension workaround stuff that nobody rly likes to seep sure this has been proposed before as well, and was a well-received idea, but im reposting here<\/blockquote>ya.I didn't mean to delete my old post but I did so oops<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by Shohei Ohtani<\/span> 2018-04-06T18:49:52+00:00<\/time>, edited 2 times in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n UndeadCapulet<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 1,100 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed April 2013<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n UndeadCapulet<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:40:26+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n cdfa silly<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by UndeadCapulet<\/a> 2018-04-06T18:52:26+00:00<\/time>, edited 1 time in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n _handholding<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 3,109 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed April 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n _handholding<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:42:21+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n tbh i kind of agree, based on the length of time a beginner has the ability\/interest to playTo fix CDFA's issue maybe word it along the lines of \"3-4 mins lowest diff cannot be insane, 4-5 mins lowest diff can not be extra\"?<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by _handholding<\/a> 2018-04-06T18:48:52+00:00<\/time>, edited 1 time in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/center><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n Shiguma<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 476 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed May 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Shiguma<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:42:24+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n 100% agree with this, because if you think about it, what new player wants to play a 4-5 minute long song? With the simplified rhythm, by 3-4 minutes a new player is probably bored of effectively playing the same thing over and over again.\n\nMaking a dynamic spread rule for longer songs makes sense to me in almost every aspect, and I would hope this motivates people to map 4 minute sets more often<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Icekalt<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 558 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed December 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Icekalt<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:48:12+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n That 4-5 minutes sets only need an insane is pretty unfavorable for me since even semi new player cant play anything over 4 mins since for the most mappers, the most disliked difficult to make is a \"Hard\". Like my suggestion would be that maybe:<200 seconds: spread rules like b4>200 seconds: spread needs an hard>300 seconds (marathon): can be anythingsince 200 seconds is 3:20, it seems pretty fair for player and mapper that after here you dont need a normal anymore. Since after the previous RC change for lowest SR in your set it is possible to have even a 2,4sr diff as lowest diff so imo no need to change that for below 200 seconds.That would be my idea since your idea is pretty discouraged against even semi new players so i proposed this instead ^^<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by Icekalt<\/a> 2018-04-08T00:35:52+00:00<\/time>, edited 1 time in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n Stack<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 729 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed March 2015<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Stack<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:49:47+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n Would also reduce the increasing amount of audio editing that is going on to reach the 5 min mark so I'd love this<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n Voli<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 813 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed April 2013<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Voli<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:49:55+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n When looking at proposals like this, it's important to look at both sides.From a mapper's perspective this change might be welcome in the short term, but from a player's perspective, restricting songs to solely higher diffs because mappers don't want to bother making full sets is not that good of a thing.As an example, most songs from genres such as rock\/metal are 3:something minutes in length. That range spreads way further than songs that are over 5 minutes (the current marathon length). Now obviously, most mappers that would map these songs wouldn't bother making the lower diffs anymore, essentially restricting the song choice completely for newer players. That's the main problem I have with this.Obviously, as a mapper myself, I would enjoy not having to deal with the struggle of mapping lower difficulties everytime I want to push my set for rank. However, I don't think it's fair for the playerbase that isn't capable yet of playing higher difficulties to restrict the amount of songs they can play so drastically. Perhaps the direction to go isn't necessarily cutting off all the lower difficulties, but rather making the dfificulty spread these maps need to have less dense (so for example, 2sr > 4sr > 6sr is acceptable or what not.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by Voli<\/a> 2018-04-06T18:58:13+00:00<\/time>, edited 2 times in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n Shohei Ohtani\n <\/span>\n \n \n \n \n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Shohei Ohtani<\/span>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:57:37+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n Also if you really want to go hard with this, you could always just consider implementing the idea that you have to map the full spread of all songs, but then don't have to map the full length for all of the difficulties.Because that's the reason spread rules were put in the first place, because people were super worried about newer players not having a lot of content to play because everyone would just sort of end up doing stuff like this: https:\/\/osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org\/b\/48775<\/a> (There's better examples but this is the only one I can off the top of my head), where newer players would only get like 1 verse and kiai while the other diffs would get more.However, I feel (and have generally always felt, from what I can recall) that it's not really problematic for easy players to have shorter experiences on these longer songs, since they are developing the endurance necessary and might not be able to play 4 minutes of map. Plus it gives incentive for replayability since you have to keep on working to be able to hear the full song.and if you wanna go SUPER far back you could always just go back to pre-spread rules where all you had to do to get approval was just say you were going for approval like: https:\/\/osu-ppy-sh.tvgratuite.org\/b\/48775<\/a> <\/del><\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n UndeadCapulet<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 1,100 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed April 2013<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n UndeadCapulet<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:57:52+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n current numbers excluding certain genres more than others is a fair point, but like i said the numbers can be fine-tuned as neededstill dont rly think we'd needneed a normal for most 3mins but if a bunch of people think otherwise i can adjustand addressing voli's edit:personally think EHX or NIU sets would be weird for newer players, it's more intuitive to say \"expect these longer maps to be harder\", but if more people are in favour of that than current proposal i won't object, still achieves the main goal in the end<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by UndeadCapulet<\/a> 2018-04-06T19:03:21+00:00<\/time>, edited 1 time in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n Nikakis<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 770 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed May 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Nikakis<\/a>\n\n \n 2018-04-06T18:59:11+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n ''and help reduce a lot of the mp3 extension workaround stuff that nobody rly likes to see.''tbh this is subjective, don't take the r3 hating thing as a whole agreement for the osu community because they would surely exist some r3 fans out there. With your logic then, any 5 min song remixes can be unrankable because they are extending the original length of the song. So stop getting triggered by the r3 extension thing, osu isn't a music police. Some variety is fun for the game.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n UndeadCapulet<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 1,100 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed April 2013<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n UndeadCapulet<\/a>\n\n \n 3t3y4v