{"content":"\n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n OnosakiHito<\/a>\n\n \n osu!taiko Paragon\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 6,856 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed March 2010<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n OnosakiHito<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-13T12:07:47+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n As I said in the taiko server: back then we measured rest moments by the actual used main snapping. Since for Muzu it was 1\/1+1\/2, we went for a minimum of 3\/2 break as 2\/1 would have disturbed the flow of a map. So continues mapping was seen as a factor to determine how hard beatmaps were.So if you guys think 1\/4 and 1\/2 is used more freuently and are also justified as lower diffs cover the rest already well enough, we can go for 2\/1 or 3\/1.Whether I would 2\/1 over 3\/1 or not however, I'm not sure. But I think going for 3\/1 isn't really problematic as you have to used it only after 16 to 20 measures and still have the possibility to use 2\/1 under exceptional circumstances.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/a>DropBox<\/a><\/strong> | Taiko Forum<\/strong><\/a> | Mapping Guide<\/a> | Spotlights<\/a><\/strong><\/center><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n coed<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 57 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed December 2013<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n coed<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-13T16:30:55+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I would just keep 2 consecutive 1\/1 moments, for me is enough to keep the map playable. I agree that 3\/2 feels too forced and I had a lot of struggle in finding a good balance every time I had to put the break.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Nao Tomori<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 3,078 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed December 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Nao Tomori<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-13T16:41:13+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n 2 consecutive 1\/1 is really not enough drop in density to fulfill the purpose of the guideline, which is to make a break period for players who are lost to recover. 1\/1 gap into 1\/1 gap is a completely average density rhythm which occurs repeatedly throughout a muzu diff and isnt calm enough to allow a player to get back into the map.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n op45667<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 118 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed March 2021<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n op45667<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-13T16:42:46+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n Capu wrote:<\/h4>op45667 wrote:<\/h4>Maybe another guideline can be introduced to limit how many times the 3 consecutive 1\/1 can be used before a 3\/2 break occurs to prevent a long, fatiguing section.<\/blockquote>That won't work as the goal for this proposal is to make rests more intuitive. By limiting the usage of the alternative you start to force the break to be unintuitive again after some time.<\/blockquote>I see. Do note that I'm relatively new to mapping atm. In that case, I would agree that 2 (more difficult muzus) or 3 (easier muzus) consecutive 1\/1 should be used only where 3\/2 cannot, but using a 3x1\/1 where a 3\/2 could've been used just for the sake of making a long pattern is against the principle of having a break in the first place, even if a 3x1\/1 provides enough break time. I agree with Hivie and ikin on that 3x1\/1 should be more of an exception than an equal alternate. If a 3\/2 can be placed, then it should be, even if it takes a little longer to find that one sound that can be afforded to be nixed in order to provide that break. If 3x1\/1 is made equal with 3\/2, I'm pretty sure some people won't even bother trying to find a 3\/2 even when there are opportunities to do so.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by op45667<\/a> 2022-02-13T17:29:24+00:00<\/time>, edited 2 times in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n nice<\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n Quorum<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 171 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed November 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Quorum<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-13T18:56:20+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n If it was for me I would have gone for 1\/1 on light muzukashii (most 1\/2 patterns) and 3\/2-2\/1 for high bpm or heavy 1\/4 triplets based. I mean, it's not like we could do differently. 3\/2 pauses are weird to use but 1\/1 are the classic pauses you use most of the time in a muzukashii so it's not like you have any other choices to put a break on the map. I think even the 3x1\/1 could be as weird as 3\/2 since it's like having a 3\/1 break with 1\/1 notes in it. Plus high bpm songs can have a lot of 1\/1 single notes so it doesn't make too much of a difference. A lot of times break guidelines were broken to preserve patterning and rhythmic structure of the map. A mapper would choose to go overboard suring the 20\/1 limit and put a pause when the rhythm allows it instead of forcing a 3\/2 pause in a weird place. Sometimes 3\/2 breaks makes muzukashii harder because of the poor predictability of the patterns that are changed to allow the weird pause. In that case if we want to point out the difficulty of a muzukashii, it's better having an increased range of continuous mapping instead of putting 3x1\/1 continuous breaks or forcing 3\/2 breaks that could make the map way harder and unpredictable. Making rests more intuitive in a muzukashi could have the opposite effect of making things more difficult to players and to mappers. I repeat, for me 2x1\/1 on light muzukashii and 3\/2-2\/1 for high bpm and heavy 1\/4 triplets muzu are a good option (you can balance the low bpm or the lack of density with the continuous mapping ensured by the 1\/1 in a light muzukashii and increase the number of pauses if the bpm is higher or have dense structure). however for me the main change is to be more lenient with continuous mapping limit on muzukashii by increasing it a bit (maybe 30\/1 since a lot of people uses 30\/1 on kiai and low density parts).<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n DakeDekaane<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 3,500 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed February 2012<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n DakeDekaane<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-13T22:00:00+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I'm going to be honest, break guidelines in Muzukashii should be more relaxed, it's in this weird spot where neither 2\/1 (Futsuu) or 1\/1 (Oni) would be a good number and 3\/2 (current) doesn't fit for every song and I'm sure some people would prefer no break rather than a forced 3\/2 break.As for the current ideas being discussed, I think both 3\/2 and 2-3 consecutive 1\/1 should be equivalent. Songs are structured different so we cannot just prefer or force one over the other.Also I agree with Nifty's point about the density, it's not a matter that \"2 isn't enough time to recover\", instead of just looking at the \"consecutive breaks\" rather look at the pattern as a whole before deciding whether it is or not enough time to recover, instead a \"break\" probably a \"recovery section\"<\/strong> would be something to have in Muzukashii. However, this \"recovery sections\" concept would be second to breaks as, from my experience, it'd happen in very few cases.Another option would be to just change the 3\/2 break every 16\/1-20\/1 for a 2\/1 break every ~32\/1 and 2 consecutive 1\/1 every 16\/1-20\/1, I think this could be more universal. And I wouldn't worry about the \"but muh muzu will become harder\", it's up to nominators whether the map is above the top or not.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by DakeDekaane<\/a> 2022-02-13T22:01:23+00:00<\/time>, edited 1 time in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n Please mod\/nom: Aoi - c.s.q.n.<\/a> | Fuki - Zekkai no Juliet<\/a>. I have cookies! ;w;<\/strong><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Lumenite-<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 650 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed April 2015<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Lumenite-<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-14T06:44:12+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n i'm kinda confused as to why this is gaining traction again. break times were a rather stringent subject themselves during my first bn tenure and again the 2nd time as well, but the guideline's wording was changed to say \"Using rest moments less frequently is acceptable if either the pace of the music makes rest moments counter-intuitive or if the continuously mapped part is overall more forgiving to the player.\" this is wording that myself and Gezo came up with a long time ago, and we phrased it this way by acknowledging that break times of any kind (discluding 1\/1 breaks) can be counter-intuitive\/awkward for the map and that these matters should be settled by the bn's best judgement, which they should be more than capable of given that they take an exam and are proficient enough in modding to understand when a difficulty's lack of breaks is an issue.the break guideline is exactly that, a guideline-this is not the old days when we, including myself, would file DQ requests based strictly on whether it is followed or not. 3\/2 is an awkward break to have formalized, that's agreeable, however i've seen multiple cases where a BNs judgement was good enough to warrant subverting the guideline. adding specifics and all this other crap is largely unnecessary, if it is now commonly sought after to use 2 1\/1 breaks as an alternative then the only people that really need to actively \"push\" this alternative are the bns ranking maps. there's really nothing to change here.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n i cuddle with a sonic plush every single night<\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Boaz<\/a>\n\n \n Beatmap Nominator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/i>\n <\/div>\n <\/a>\n\n \n <\/i>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 225 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed October 2018<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Boaz<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-21T19:06:30+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n i disagree<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Nao Tomori<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 3,078 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed December 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Nao Tomori<\/a>\n\n \n 2022-02-21T19:09:10+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n The virgin several paragraph detailed position paper post vs the chad \"I disagree\"<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n 5c4yi