{"content":"\n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n ikin5050<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 587 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed February 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n ikin5050<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-16T23:35:55+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I don't believe 2x1\/1 is sufficient, and that 3x1\/1 would be better. Personally I would be hesitant to nominate anything that uses 2x1\/1 instead of a proper 3\/2 rest moment.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n DakeDekaane<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 3,500 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed February 2012<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n DakeDekaane<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-16T23:42:10+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I have to say 3\/2 was a weird decision to establish it as a proper rest moment.Agreeing so much for this change to happen. It's really sad to play maps that have these awkward rhythms just to comply with the guidelines when they can be definitely better.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n Please mod\/nom: Aoi - c.s.q.n.<\/a> | Fuki - Zekkai no Juliet<\/a>. I have cookies! ;w;<\/strong><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Genjuro<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 657 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed August 2013<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Genjuro<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-17T00:16:38+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I disagree because 1\/1 is one of the main snappings used in the diff so it can't really be considered a rest moment (yes even 2 in a row). There is nothing wrong with using a 2\/1 break every 4 measures, it doesn't feel too long for a diff that mainly uses 1\/1 and 1\/2 patterns + you also have the option to use 3\/2 if that fits. I've literally never seen any experienced mappers complain about this, the only mappers who complain about the guideline either don't know that using 2\/1 is okay or make their muzu diffs so hard to the point that 2\/1 ends up seeming too long! The guideline already says that \"Using rest moments less frequently is acceptable if either the pace of the music makes rest moments counter-intuitive or if the continuously mapped part is overall more forgiving to the player.\"<\/em> so it's not like anyone is forced to use unintuitive rest moments.tldr: guideline is fine this proposal is unnecessary<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n radar<\/a>\n\n \n Nomination Assessment Team\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed September 2015<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n radar<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-17T01:32:12+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I agree with both ikin and genjuro somewhat, i feel like this proposal isnt suuper necessary and that 2x 1\/1 is also too lenient. Imo this will likely result in super difficult muzus going through as well as a lot of unnecessary discourse in regards to when 2x 1\/1 is acceptable over 3\/2, also, spread between futsuu -> muzu density wise will be made into a lot more of a jump if this goes through in its current stateif i were to suggest an adjustment, id rather just have muzukashiis clarify that 2\/1 is acceptable (perhaps say that its favored over 3\/2 unless the song calls for it, or something), or maybe 3x 1\/1 but, as genjuro stated that is one of the main snaps meant to be used so im not sure either<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n (\u0e51<\/span>\u02c3\u1d17\u02c2)\ufeed<\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n Gamelan4<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/i>\n <\/div>\n <\/a>\n\n \n <\/i>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 168 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed March 2017<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Gamelan4<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-17T02:05:13+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n This guideline change seems unnecessary to me. I agree with radar's clarification though. 3\/2 breaks are fine, and applying them is what makes muzus the special kind of difficulty they are. Using 2 1\/1s as a replacement doesn't fit with the fact that most if not all rhythms in muzus are based around that. Whether people break a guideline but with enough justification, or make up rhythms around breaks above 3\/2 that fit a muzu diff, it's up to the mapper and the judgement of the bn on a case-to-case bases. It's not worth to solve specific cases (such as what Ideal mentions) by creating more, bigger ones (as radar states).<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by Gamelan4<\/a> 2021-05-17T02:09:25+00:00<\/time>, edited 2 times in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n Axer<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 434 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed October 2015<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Axer<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-17T02:58:59+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n ikin5050 wrote:<\/h4>I don't believe 2x1\/1 is sufficient, and that 3x1\/1 would be better. Personally I would be hesitant to nominate anything that uses 2x1\/1 instead of a proper 3\/2 rest moment.<\/blockquote>I could name plenty of scenarios among my maps where two 1\/1 breaks could've worked better than a single 3\/2 one, some scenarios where using two 1\/1 breaks could also have given me room for more variety in patterning, I personally wouldn't have ever been hesitant about nominating maps that abided by this rule had it been better defined (and not shunned).Genjuro wrote:<\/h4>I disagree because 1\/1 is one of the main snappings used in the diff so it can't really be considered a rest moment (yes even 2 in a row). There is nothing wrong with using a 2\/1 break every 4 measures, it doesn't feel too long for a diff that mainly uses 1\/1 and 1\/2 patterns + you also have the option to use 3\/2 if that fits. I've literally never seen any experienced mappers complain about this, the only mappers who complain about the guideline either don't know that using 2\/1 is okay or make their muzu diffs so hard to the point that 2\/1 ends up seeming too long! The guideline already says that \"Using rest moments less frequently is acceptable if either the pace of the music makes rest moments counter-intuitive or if the continuously mapped part is overall more forgiving to the player.\"<\/em> so it's not like anyone is forced to use unintuitive rest moments.tldr: guideline is fine this proposal is unnecessary<\/blockquote>I can argue that I'm an experienced mapper and I have had hard times handling muzukashii break usage, there are many maps where I've had to make decisions I dislike just to keep it rankable for BNs due to this stigmatization of alternatives, the fact that it's not solidly specified is what makes people unconfident about it, so having it be acknowledged further could probably help the ranking process ease up.The proposal might be unnecessary but it's not useless, not in the slightest, an addition like this one would definitely set a clear example of alternative ways to introduce a break, instead of the not-so-clear \"Using rest moments less frequently is acceptable\" which only says \"yeah there's an alternative, figure it out\".-I heavily agree with this proposal, it'd be nice for people to be encouraged to use alternatives whenever needed, having 3\/2 as the foreman over all other alternatives only makes this guideline feel abrasive at best and hard to read (harder to execute) at worst.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Nao Tomori<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 3,078 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed December 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Nao Tomori<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-17T03:31:08+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I think 3x1\/1 as definitely ok and 2x1\/1 as a \"well it's an intense part so it's more continuously mapped but not too straining\" solution is fine. I making the rule 3x1\/1 and generally allowing 2x1\/1 in intense parts.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Jerry<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 1,159 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed December 2010<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Jerry<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-05-17T06:02:44+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n The allowance of having consecutive 1\/1 breaks in place of 3\/2 has already been quite common among several ranked maps so having it included in the guidelines themselves should be a good step forward. Also big agree with everything Nao mentioned above.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n Tyistiana<\/a>\n\n \n osu! Alumni\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 541 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n ed February 2012<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n 5rv4i